PAF to Convert Bombardier Global 6000 into a SOJ Electronic Warfare Platform in Cooperation With Turkey's TAI

[kaku]

This is wrong,

Okey

HavaSoj is PURELY a standoff jammer.

Okey, as you say.

Well, the key aspect of it is in the name, standoff, i.e, staying well clear of adversary AD and missile capability, providing wide area suppression of adversary electronics.

Yeah, americans are fools, where USN have to adopt HBJ,MBJ and LBJ path for OCA. They should just developed standoff jamming.

"Furthur, standoff jamming or escort jamming is quite hard to work against new-gen GaN based AESA radars which are equipped with dedicated SLC/SLB capable to work in heavy EW environments"

This is a pretty poor argument, it comes back down to the classic flawed argument of oh, ATGM's exist, now tanks are useless. Guns exist, now soldiers are useless. Missiles exist, planes are useless. This is a flawed argument, these systems are designed with a reference threat in mind, the reference threat for a system, being designed in this age, is literally exactly that, modern AESA fighter radars, Turkey's primary adversary, Greece, being equipped with SABR's and APG-83s, some of the most advanced radars out there- you think they're just throwing money at development of a system for no reason lol? The idea that modern radars have made Jammer's obsolete is silly- AESA radars, whether GaN or GaA, old or new, are inherently, by design, more resistant to ECM, not invincible to such attacks.

Thats why I said primary mission isnt jamming.

"Isnt it far better option would be to go for HBJ,MBJ and LBJ on J-10?"

How is this a far better option? You have a single pilot, now flying the A/C, defending against adversary attack because he has to be closer to the action, while also actually operating your jamming platform, that too, at lesser ranges, lesser loiter time, while also limited by the physical constraints of the array too(most podded solutions do not offer 360 degree coverage.)

Are you for real? You dont control jamming pods nowdays, firstly most of enemy emissions are pre-feeded on jamming pods based on ELINT, where recievers utilize radar fingerprinting algorithms, and automatically begin the jamming.

Also for most OCA sweeps you donot need 360 degree coverage.

"Furthur, from images I can see HAVA-SOJ is eqipped SAR pod, and most likely coming with GMTI, most likely for managing ground battles."

How have you seen this lol, which image has shown you a "SAR Pod".
You took Raytheon's sentinel and assumed that because HavaSoj is using the same fairings and airframe modifications that it is housing the same sensors. No it is not, HavaSoj is purely a standoff jammer, within those fairings are the arrays and comms antennae, no SAR, etc. Hensholdt also is using the same fairings and airframe design for their Kalaetron SOJ solution for the Global 6000.

Thats a fair argument. But you donot need such big pod for comms antenna or for COMJAM.
Furthur, Kalaetron is not a standoff jammer, but a ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT platform.

But if HAVA SOJ is a pure jammer platform, might be possible that belly pod is most likely LBJ.

Your deduction is based on your lack of accurate research.

Okey, show me the research where it suggest the belly pod is a jammer. I might have missed because of language barrier.

"Question PAF have to ask, is it worth to invest into standoff jamming?"

Certainly, which is why they are doing it. Not only them, many others are also pursuing more modern standoff jammer platforms.

No fighter jet engine, barring the F-35's can likely produce the kind of output needed to provide serious power to numerous arrays. No single pilot brings the kind of analysis and C&C that a dedicated EWO can bring, which is why the HavaSoj and other jammers have numerous EWO's, because theyre specialists in their role, sniffing out radars, emissions, comms, datalinks, whatever it may be, because as you said, as emitters become harder to locate, you now need personnel who are specifically trained on sniffing out those emitters which are hiding behind the noise floor for example, or whatever it may be.

HavaSoj will provide exactly that, specialists in their roles, the dedicated equipment needed to locate and nullify those emissions, while providing greater crew comfort, on station time, safety from adversary attack, and also alot more power and systems to make the correct decisions.

HavaSoj will provide the fighters its escorting, full spectrum coverage, while also being able to provide high power escort jamming to aircraft operating under its safety, from 3/4 directions (i am not aware of any front facing arrays)- operating just like erieye (flying patterns which ensure consistent coverage)

Escort jamming is entirely different than standoff jamming.

 

[MMM-E]

HAVASOJ has main role to jam and paralyze enemy Air Defense-Radars from 400 km away to create safe zone for the Turkish Air Force Fighter Jets in cross border operations

HAVA SOJ also has capability to jam and paralyze enemy communications systems in secondary mission

So HAVASOJ is for the purpose of jamming-deceiving all kinds of radar and communications Systems of the enemy forces before entering the threat zone in offensive air operations


HAVASOJ is a very complex and high degree of difficulty project that can only be realized by a few Countries in the world

 

[Ak01]

Okey

Okey, as you say.

Yeah, americans are fools, where USN have to adopt HBJ,MBJ and LBJ path for OCA. They should just developed standoff jamming.


Thats why I said primary mission isnt jamming.


Are you for real? You dont control jamming pods nowdays, firstly most of enemy emissions are pre-feeded on jamming pods based on ELINT, where recievers utilize radar fingerprinting algorithms, and automatically begin the jamming.

Also for most OCA sweeps you donot need 360 degree coverage.



Thats a fair argument. But you donot need such big pod for comms antenna or for COMJAM.
Furthur, Kalaetron is not a standoff jammer, but a ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT platform.

But if HAVA SOJ is a pure jammer platform, might be possible that belly pod is most likely LBJ.


Okey, show me the research where it suggest the belly pod is a jammer. I might have missed because of language barrier.


Escort jamming is entirely different than standoff jamming.

"Yeah, americans are fools, where USN have to adopt HBJ,MBJ and LBJ path for OCA. They should just developed standoff jamming."

Pathetic lol- the USN is bound by the inherent limitation of a carrier.

The USAF literally has C130 based compass call, for which there is compass call 2 being developed based off of he G550 platform and even discussion to convert b52's into soj's.

"Thats why I said primary mission isnt jamming."
to which you are wrong.

"Are you for real? You dont control jamming pods nowdays, firstly most of enemy emissions are pre-feeded on jamming pods based on ELINT, where recievers utilize radar fingerprinting algorithms, and automatically begin the jamming."

lol EWO's just exist for fun then dont they

"Thats a fair argument. But you donot need such big pod for comms antenna or for COMJAM.
Furthur, Kalaetron is not a standoff jammer, but a ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT platform."

Wrong and wrong.
The HavaSoj uses a preexisting, pre certified airframe modification. Whether there is an antenna the size of your screen, or an antenna the size of the entire fairing is irrelevant.

Secondly, there is numerous antennae.

Third, on your point about Kalaetron



"Okey, show me the research where it suggest the belly pod is a jammer. I might have missed because of language barrier."

3 arrays, how do we know they're EA arrays- well, havaSOJ- hava STAND OFF JAMMER lol i cant believe im having to tell you this.

"

Escort jamming is entirely different than standoff jamming.

Probably best to just stick to IDRW and chest thump there- you're making a fool of yourself

 

[Bilal]

well, havaSOJ- hava STAND OFF JAMMER lol i cant believe im having to tell you this.

Exactly, it’s literally the product’s name.

 

[kaku]

Pathetic lol- the USN is bound by the inherent limitation of a carrier.

Kid, USAF depend on USN for OCA sweeps, not the other way around.

The USAF literally has C130 based compass call, for which there is compass call 2 being developed based off of he G550 platform and even discussion to convert b52's into soj's.

Kids these days, never try to read anything, if they had ever read Gulf War, then they knew Compass Call was used as COMJAM, not standoff jammer for OCA.

Jamming assets assembled in the theatre included USAF EC-130 Compass Call standoff communications jammers, Naval EA-6B Prowlers and the USAF's EF-111A Ravens. The protracted buildup was a major benefit to the Allies, who used the time to upgrade both hardware and software in many of the jamming systems, to precisely match the Iraqi inventory. Unlike the Israelis in 1973, who carried the wrong jammers and warning receivers for the threat at hand, the Allies had the best of intelligence and used it to the fullest.

Operation Desert Storm - The Electronic Battle Parts 1 - 3

Desert Storm, Electronic Combat, Electronic Attack, Electronic Warfare, EW, jamming, EF-111A, HARM, AGM-88, Prowler, EA-6B, Rivet Joint, RC-135V/W, SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-8, Roland, Flat Face, Bar Lock, Fan Song, Low Blow, Air Power, Australia, Technology, Strategy, Policy, Military

www.ausairpower.net

They have even mentioned it on there website

The EC-130H Compass Call is an airborne tactical weapon system using a heavily modified version of the C-130 Hercules airframe. The system disrupts enemy command and control communications and limits adversary coordination essential for enemy force management. The Compass Call system employs offensive counter-information and electronic attack (or EA) capabilities in support of U.S. and Coalition tactical air, surface, and special operations forces.

EC-130H Compass Call

The EC-130H Compass Call is an airborne tactical weapon system using a heavily modified version of the C-130 Hercules airframe.

www.af.mil

And here the details of equipment on Compass Call

Few details exist in the public domain regarding the EC-130H’s COMINT/COMJAM subsystems. Official US government documents say these include BAE Systems’ Special Purpose Emitter Array (SPEAR). SPEAR jams multiple emitters simultaneously via a phased array antenna. Armada records state that SPEAR covers Very/Ultra High Frequency (V/UHF) wavebands of 30 megahertz/MHz to three gigahertz/GHz.

The aircraft is also outfitted with the Tactical Radio Acquisition and Countermeasure Subsystem (TRACS-C). SPEAR is though to be used against civilian communications, with TRACS-S employed against military V/UHF networks. Finally, the aircraft’s NOVA equipment jams remote-controlled improvised explosive devices.

Sharp SABER - Armada International

The US Air Force is upgrading the mission systems onboard its EC-130H Compass Call aircraft in preparation for the EC-37B's service entry.

www.armadainternational.com

Devil lies in details.

to which you are wrong.

Okey.

lol EWO's just exist for fun then dont they

Even after MKI upgrade, WSO officer still exist. F-15 EX is still coming with WSO/CSO variant. So whats your point?

Furthur, Kalaetron is not a standoff jammer, but a ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT platform."

Wrong and wrong.
The HavaSoj uses a preexisting, pre certified airframe modification. Whether there is an antenna the size of your screen, or an antenna the size of the entire fairing is irrelevant.

Secondly, there is numerous antennae.

Third, on your point about Kalaetron
View attachment 36791

Facepalm, Kalaetron Attack and Kalaetron is entirely different platform.

"Okey, show me the research where it suggest the belly pod is a jammer. I might have missed because of language barrier."
View attachment 36792
3 arrays, how do we know they're EA arrays- well, havaSOJ- hava STAND OFF JAMMER lol i cant believe im having to tell you this.

If it is 3 arrays, then it must be jammers? Develop some brain cells.

"

Probably best to just stick to IDRW and chest thump there- you're making a fool of yourself

Next time, learn how to quote, and do a proper formatting, and learn the difference between escort jamming and standoff jamming instead of calling other fools.

 

[Falcon26]

Kid, USAF depend on USN for OCA sweeps, not the other way around.


Kids these days, never try to read anything, if they had ever read Gulf War, then they knew Compass Call was used as COMJAM, not standoff jammer for OCA.

Operation Desert Storm - The Electronic Battle Parts 1 - 3

Desert Storm, Electronic Combat, Electronic Attack, Electronic Warfare, EW, jamming, EF-111A, HARM, AGM-88, Prowler, EA-6B, Rivet Joint, RC-135V/W, SA-2, SA-3, SA-6, SA-8, Roland, Flat Face, Bar Lock, Fan Song, Low Blow, Air Power, Australia, Technology, Strategy, Policy, Military

www.ausairpower.net

They have even mentioned it on there website

EC-130H Compass Call

The EC-130H Compass Call is an airborne tactical weapon system using a heavily modified version of the C-130 Hercules airframe.

www.af.mil

And here the details of equipment on Compass Call

Sharp SABER - Armada International

The US Air Force is upgrading the mission systems onboard its EC-130H Compass Call aircraft in preparation for the EC-37B's service entry.

www.armadainternational.com

Devil lies in details.



Okey.

Even after MKI upgrade, WSO officer still exist. F-15 EX is still coming with WSO/CSO variant. So whats your point?

Facepalm, Kalaetron Attack and Kalaetron is entirely different platform.


If it is 3 arrays, then it must be jammers? Develop some brain cells.


Next time, learn how to quote, and do a proper formatting, and learn the difference between escort jamming and standoff jamming instead of calling other fools.

Take some break from the internet today. You’re losing your marbles & embarrassing yourself, buddy. The person you’re going back and forth is an industry expert and knows what he’s talking about m. Not searching for google and making basic factual errors like you.

 

[kaku]

Take some break from the internet today. You’re losing your marbles & embarrassing yourself, buddy. The person you’re going back and forth is an industry expert and knows what he’s talking about m. Not searching for google and making basic factual errors like you.

Industry expert who don’t even knew about Compass Call, and the difference in COMJAM and radar jamming? I am better without being an industry expert.

Aur pole khol ne par aa Gaya na main, I have seen several of these industry experts in India, who thinks SDR and datalinks are same thing.

So just drop these badges.

I totally might be wrong in this, but I don’t back up my arguments by falsified informations.

 

[Ak01]

Industry expert who don’t even knew about Compass Call, and the difference in COMJAM and radar jamming? I am better without being an industry expert.

no, you're better at making yourself look stupid- thats about it lol

 

[snne]

It's on the roadmap, but it doesn't seem like the PAF has pulled the trigger on the program yet. I also wonder if they'll loop in Aselsan (for HAVASOJ) or go for some other suite. @JamD @arslank01 @Oscar

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Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler:"Hava SOJ is very important. TAI and Aselsan are carrying out intensive activities. 4 of our aircraft will be ready in 2025 and 2026."

 

[warbird]

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View attachment 36038

strategic development.

 

[Signalian]

Firstly I dont know why you getting triggered, making 6 replies?

Furthur, as you mentioned, communications were jammed of MiG-21 in VHF/UHF band. Thats not standoff jamming or escort jamming, its COMJAM, which is far easier to achieve if you are not equipped with SDR with frequency hopping.

Even I am unable to find any kind of standoff jammer pod or escort jamming pod on DA-20.
View attachment 36744

This is similar to payload equipped on IAF's Heron and upcoming dedicated SCA (SIGINT COMJAM AIRCRAFT) based on A319.

It be much harder to jam comms of IAF's fighter which now getting equipped with BNET SDR and L-band datalink.

View attachment 36745

L-band ODL on upgraded MKI​

View attachment 36746

L-band antenna for Tejas Mk1A and MKI UPG​

1601354 L-Band Antenna

The 1601354 L-Band Antenna has been designed for Bureau of Civil Aviation Security (BCAS) characteristics to provide more stringent radiation pattern directivity to assure reliable system performance.

www.l3harris.com

In conclusion, COMJAM and standoff jamming is entirely different ballgame, one is used for OCA sweeps and other for jamming comms.



No, SPJ is not going to be enough for ground radars, which most work in S-band. And even a wide band HBJ only can jam upto C-band.

Thats why even IAF is going for LBJ on Rafale in ISA upgrade, and LRDE is developing a pod for LCA Mk2 and MKI UPG for OCA sweeps.

Kudos to your belief that that DA-20 cannot interfere with Comms since it just carries SOJ.
Abhi's Mig didnt have radar ? nor even RWR ? or any other ECM ?
I wonder why IAFs radar couldnt fire SAMs at PAFs Mirages and JFTs.

 

[Signalian]

"Yeah, americans are fools, where USN have to adopt HBJ,MBJ and LBJ path for OCA. They should just developed standoff jamming."

Pathetic lol- the USN is bound by the inherent limitation of a carrier.

The USAF literally has C130 based compass call, for which there is compass call 2 being developed based off of he G550 platform and even discussion to convert b52's into soj's.

"Thats why I said primary mission isnt jamming."
to which you are wrong.

"Are you for real? You dont control jamming pods nowdays, firstly most of enemy emissions are pre-feeded on jamming pods based on ELINT, where recievers utilize radar fingerprinting algorithms, and automatically begin the jamming."

lol EWO's just exist for fun then dont they

"Thats a fair argument. But you donot need such big pod for comms antenna or for COMJAM.
Furthur, Kalaetron is not a standoff jammer, but a ELINT/SIGINT/COMINT platform."

Wrong and wrong.
The HavaSoj uses a preexisting, pre certified airframe modification. Whether there is an antenna the size of your screen, or an antenna the size of the entire fairing is irrelevant.

Secondly, there is numerous antennae.

Third, on your point about Kalaetron
View attachment 36791


"Okey, show me the research where it suggest the belly pod is a jammer. I might have missed because of language barrier."
View attachment 36792
3 arrays, how do we know they're EA arrays- well, havaSOJ- hava STAND OFF JAMMER lol i cant believe im having to tell you this.

"

Probably best to just stick to IDRW and chest thump there- you're making a fool of yourself

That Indian kid has no idea what he is on and about.
IAF's electronic infrastructure banked at a standstill in Feb 2019 thanks to DA-20s in the region. IAFs ground based radars as well as airborne radars became useless as PAFs Mirages and JFTs loitered around and dropped iron in IOK.

 

[Signalian]

HAVASOJ has main role to jam and paralyze enemy Air Defense-Radars from 400 km away to create safe zone for the Turkish Air Force Fighter Jets in cross border operations

HAVA SOJ also has capability to jam and paralyze enemy communications systems in secondary mission

So HAVASOJ is for the purpose of jamming-deceiving all kinds of radar and communications Systems of the enemy forces before entering the threat zone in offensive air operations


HAVASOJ is a very complex and high degree of difficulty project that can only be realized by a few Countries in the world

If PAF's 60's era model Mirages can go in safely into IAF airpsace while being backed by DA-20s and other supporting aircrafts, its intriguing what holds for IAFs S-400 now when a new SOJ like havaSOJ comes into action with JFTs and J-10s leading the missions while future fighters like J-31 might get to see newer versions of SOJ backing them up..

 

[kaku]

Kudos to your belief that that DA-20 cannot interfere with Comms since it just carries SOJ.
Abhi's Mig didnt have radar ? nor even RWR ? or any other ECM ?
I wonder why IAFs radar couldnt fire SAMs at PAFs Mirages and JFTs.

That is next level quackery certain Pakistanis wants to believe in, while calling themselves so called expert. These people don’t even want to indulge into knowing the sensor suite or even try to guess with high confidence level. While suggesting a small business jet able to jam not only airborne radars, but also ground radars, which is quite laughable at best.

That’s why I reply to only certain people in Pak section, that able to bring sane discussion. But big mistake I diverted from this path after my first reply, but alas it happens sometime.