Pakistan and China to hold major iteration of strategic-level dialogues on the 14th and 15th of May, in Beijing.

[maverick]

Because the CCP was indeed exploiting Pakistan through CPEC but this matter should have been handled more wisely.

It was not CCP, it was the establishment and NS in power who had sub contracts and siphoning money from China and when PTI Govt wanted to audit it, the CPEC under army stopped working on it and blame PTI Govt. These are two are the worst traitors on the face of Earth.

 

[_NOBODY_]

It was not CCP, it was the establishment and NS in power who had sub contracts and siphoning money from China and when PTI Govt wanted to audit it, the CPEC under army stopped working on it and blame PTI Govt. These are two are the worst traitors on the face of Earth.

Siphoning money from China? Do you think that the CCP is led by retards? The CCP offered the PMLN government predatory contracts, knowing that Pakistan had no bargaining power as it was extremely desperate for any FDI at the time. And PMLN, a party with no foresight, signed these contracts. Yes, PMLN deserves all the sh*t for signing these contracts but why are you treating the CCP like some innocent child. I applaud the CCP for intelligently exploiting Pakistan as their duty is only to have China prosper but I also fully recognise how they are more than willing to exploit other nations just like any other government in the world.

 

[maverick]

Siphoning money from China? Do you think that the CCP is led by retards? The CCP offered the PMLN government predatory contracts, knowing that Pakistan had no bargaining power as it was extremely desperate for any FDI at the time. And PMLN, a party with no foresight, signed these contracts. Yes, PMLN deserves all the sh*t for signing these contracts but why are you treating the CCP like some innocent child. I applaud the CCP for intelligently exploiting Pakistan as their duty is only to have China prosper but I also fully recognise how they are more than willing to exploit other nations just like any other government in the world.

Quite a plausible explanation. but on the flip side Pakistan always got soft loans from China with easy to return conditions. Why then would you think that CPEC was predatory this time? was it similar to IMF loan of 16-19% interest ? Pakistan historically got loans at 5% to 7% terms from CHina. Care to explain ?

 

[Jamie]

Siphoning money from China? Do you think that the CCP is led by retards? The CCP offered the PMLN government predatory contracts, knowing that Pakistan had no bargaining power as it was extremely desperate for any FDI at the time. And PMLN, a party with no foresight, signed these contracts. Yes, PMLN deserves all the sh*t for signing these contracts but why are you treating the CCP like some innocent child. I applaud the CCP for intelligently exploiting Pakistan as their duty is only to have China prosper but I also fully recognise how they are more than willing to exploit other nations just like any other government in the world.

The Power projects were a necessity because in the not so distant past we were getting 18-20 hrs load shedding.
When no one was willing to invest the Chinese steped up. You don’t think they would set a safety net for their investments?
Capacity payments would hve been alot easily managed if the governments didn’t round up such a huge circular dept from DISCO side.
Huge line losses owing mostly to theft and no payment of bills.

Making electricity from coal is more expensive since the global prices for coal surged. Most european countries restarted there old coal plants inlight of russian ban.
Our dollar crunch, compounded with huge circular dept made it difficult to pay the Chinese power producers.
So now we think… well lets just stop buying expensive coal and LNG electricity. But the Chinese have minimum capacity payments in contract. Why wouldn’t they? Imagine investing billions and then the sole buyer says… well sell me at a loss or else im not buying. That’s not how the world works. They made their safety net beforehand.

For context for some really illiterate members even projects by other foreign companies have required similar contracts like the wind farms.

Dutch, german and other Europen countries make bare minimum capacity payments in contracts for their wind and solar plants even( alot cheaper than coal but they still require)
India imported 176 million tons of thermal coal in 2023… while Pakistan imported about 30 mt in the same time frame.
When you can’t pay…. There are alot of excuses. The electricity is EXPENSIVE!!! Well sort out the most major contributor that makes it difficult for you to pay back…. The DISCO losses.
And if the-coal prices keep surging then its okay. Buy the bare minimum electricity from these Chinese units expensive as it may be, stop the huge losses and circular dept so it won’t be a problem to pay back timely , but don’t throw mud at there face when they were the only ones who came to your help when no one else did.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

.... We can’t even raise $1 billion from these elites and are turning the country upside down for that $1 billion from the IMF and selling a 25% stake in Reko Diq to the Saudis for just $1 Billion.

Did you have the same opinion when incompetent Imran Khan's Government provided 3 amnesties to the corrupt in just 3 years and did you also question why Pakistan's position in the corruption index moved from 117 to 140?

And, there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving 25% stake to the Saudis otherwise no one will invest in the Reqo Diq.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Quite a plausible explanation. but on the flip side Pakistan always got soft loans from China with easy to return conditions. Why then would you think that CPEC was predatory this time? was it similar to IMF loan of 16-19% interest ? Pakistan historically got loans at 5% to 7% terms from CHina. Care to explain ?

I haven't said anything about the interest rates. My issue is with the capacity payments for the energy projects.

The Power projects were a necessity because in the not so distant past we were getting 18-20 hrs load shedding.
When no one was willing to invest the Chinese steped up. You don’t think they would set a safety net for their investments?
Capacity payments would hve been alot easily managed if the governments didn’t round up such a huge circular dept from DISCO side.
Huge line losses owing mostly to theft and no payment of bills.

Making electricity from coal is more expensive since the global prices for coal surged. Most european countries restarted there old coal plants inlight of russian ban.
Our dollar crunch, compounded with huge circular dept made it difficult to pay the Chinese power producers.
So now we think… well lets just stop buying expensive coal and LNG electricity. But the Chinese have minimum capacity payments in contract. Why wouldn’t they? Imagine investing billions and then the sole buyer says… well sell me at a loss or else im not buying. That’s not how the world works. They made their safety net beforehand.

For context for some really illiterate members even projects by other foreign companies have required similar contracts like the wind farms.

Dutch, german and other Europen countries make bare minimum capacity payments in contracts for their wind and solar plants even( alot cheaper than coal but they still require)
India imported 176 million tons of thermal coal in 2023… while Pakistan imported about 30 mt in the same time frame.
When you can’t pay…. There are alot of excuses. The electricity is EXPENSIVE!!! Well sort out the most major contributor that makes it difficult for you to pay back…. The DISCO losses.
And if the-coal prices keep surging then its okay. Buy the bare minimum electricity from these Chinese units expensive as it may be, stop the huge losses and circular dept so it won’t be a problem to pay back timely , but don’t throw mud at there face when they were the only ones who came to your help when no one else did.

Did you expect Lord Ishaq Dar to manage circular debt? Another way to manage the capacity payment issue was to industrialize as rapidly as possible in order to create more demand for electricity, leading the country to become a manufacturing hub. However, Lord Dar was literally telling the media that Pakistan doesn't need to industrialize and increase its exports and he justified this by giving the example of gulf nations. Lord Dar's hallucinations probably made him believe that Pakistan was a mega oil-producing nation.

Economists had already predicted that the way Pakistan's economy was growing was unsustainable and as soon as the bubble burst, Pakistan would need another IMF program, consequently, leading to a massive devaluation of PKR. Were our finance ministry so damn incompetent that they didn't see this coming? If they did then why did they agree to pay China the capacity payments in USD? By the way, the CCP also saw this coming considering how damn obvious it was.

Europe's minimum capacity payments for renewables are a drop in the bucket compared to Pakistan's situation. Renewables like wind and solar are significantly cheaper to operate than coal plants, even with capacity payments.
Even with a capacity payment, Europe's cost per unit of energy is much lower because solar is cheaper to operate than coal. Pakistan pays nearly 5 times more per unit of energy due to expensive coal, even before considering the extra capacity payment.

Chinese didn't help us, just like any other nation they were looking out for their best interests just like they are doing now. The Chinese are by far the most patient investors on Earth which is why they chose to invest in Pakistan in the first place. China always focuses on its long-term ambitions which is something that the rest of the world should learn from them.

 

[FuturePAF]

Did you have the same opinion when incompetent Imran Khan's Government provided 3 amnesties to the corrupt in just 3 years and did you also question why Pakistan's position in the corruption index moved from 117 to 140?

And, there's absolutely nothing wrong with giving 25% stake to the Saudis otherwise no one will invest in the Reqo Diq.

My opinion has been the same with regards to Reko-Diq regardless of government. Go back to the old forum and check. If we are to sell a stake it should be a smaller one. 10% for such and such investment and support to get our own mining industry running again.

I have said this should be a partial loss leader to get our own domestic mining industry up and running.

Otherwise, you sell to others and don’t do the critical work yourself, then you squandering the opportunities, and sitting around calling out the foreign investor for “taking advantage” of you.

I was never for any amnesties. Heck, Pre-IK I realized how crappy the industrial elite of Pakistan were and said if they (the Sharifs who were in charge then) wanted to be a little less corrupt but were able to get things done, it will be the burden we may have to live with. But turns out allowing corruption at all is the undoing of the country. That is why I supported and still support IK. He may be naive and incompetent but he pointed out that corruption squanders our opportunities.

Btw, why did you change your name from Suparco?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Looks like this summit is taking place at a very crucial time for China. Recent developments:

• Australia, Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines are now a pivot to the the China encirclement policy of the USA. The screw is being tightened with every passing day.
• Secretary Blinken has delivered a clear message in Beijing: it's existential for the West vis-a-vis Russia, so don't push the West to do what it doesn't intend to do.
• China might not burn her bridge to the West for the sake of Russia.
• China might be interested in maintaining the status quo with the West by preserving her strategic patience.
• Etc.

As for the Pak Deep State: be the first in the queue when the food is served, and the last in the queue when the fighting starts. It has no intention or capability to take on the West outright. It has no choice but to maintain this delicate balance. And, it is good at it....

 

[PakFactor]

Looks like this summit is taking place at a very crucial time for China. Recent developments:

• Australia, Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines are now a pivot to the the China encirclement policy of the USA. The screw is being tightened with every passing day.
• Secretary Blinken has delivered a clear message in Beijing: it's existential for the West vis-a-vis Russia, so don't push the West to do what it doesn't intend to do.
• China might not burn her bridge to the West for the sake of Russia.
• China might be interested in maintaining the status quo with the West by preserving her strategic patience.
• Etc.

As for the Pak Deep State: be the first in the queue when the food is served, and the last in the queue when the fighting starts. It has no intention or capability to take on the West outright. It has no choice but to maintain this delicate balance. And, it is good at it....

One thing my Pakistanis forget, Imran Khan or no Khan, the Chinese talk to the COAS, the de facto ruler of the country. The individual responsible for screwing up and angering the Chinese was Bajwa; right now, internally, the current COAS is trying to repair some bridges, but he also has his own internal battles due to Bajwa's fault, or I should say political tinkering on his way out.

 

[Jamie]

I haven't said anything about the interest rates. My issue is with the capacity payments for the energy projects.


Did you expect Lord Ishaq Dar to manage circular debt? Another way to manage the capacity payment issue was to industrialize as rapidly as possible in order to create more demand for electricity, leading the country to become a manufacturing hub. However, Lord Dar was literally telling the media that Pakistan doesn't need to industrialize and increase its exports and he justified this by giving the example of gulf nations. Lord Dar's hallucinations probably made him believe that Pakistan was a mega oil-producing nation.

Economists had already predicted that the way Pakistan's economy was growing was unsustainable and as soon as the bubble burst, Pakistan would need another IMF program, consequently, leading to a massive devaluation of PKR. Were our finance ministry so damn incompetent that they didn't see this coming? If they did then why did they agree to pay China the capacity payments in USD? By the way, the CCP also saw this coming considering how damn obvious it was.

Europe's minimum capacity payments for renewables are a drop in the bucket compared to Pakistan's situation. Renewables like wind and solar are significantly cheaper to operate than coal plants, even with capacity payments.
Even with a capacity payment, Europe's cost per unit of energy is much lower because solar is cheaper to operate than coal. Pakistan pays nearly 5 times more per unit of energy due to expensive coal, even before considering the extra capacity payment.

Chinese didn't help us, just like any other nation they were looking out for their best interests just like they are doing now. The Chinese are by far the most patient investors on Earth which is why they chose to invest in Pakistan in the first place. China always focuses on its long-term ambitions which is something that the rest of the world should learn from them.

Dar aside…. Imrans gov didn’t do any better for circular dept. it increased further. Some PTI party members ( quite recently aswell) are adamant that DISCOS should not be privatized.
Peshawar DISCO produces one of the biggest loss because of mainly theft and non payment of bills, followed by multan.
But gandapur believes kpk deserves this much because in his own words…. Hum bijli bnate hain aur punjabi sari le jate hain.
With this idiocracy still prevailing the debt will just keep rising.
People point out KE as an example of DISCO privatization gone wrong, but we must remember that there was no compition for KE to stop it’s corrupt practices. Privatization of DISCOs with several companies who are in competition with each other in free market to gain more substations will produce the best outcomes.
If one DISCO produces line losses it’s upto them to recover the loss than the government shouldering the burden. And if a DISCO starts to become more like KE and put pressure on end users.. finish there contract and give it to there competitive company.
If managed correctly this will produce the best results.
But I know our politicians will f up even this simple thing.

 

[UserUsing]

i will trust imran khan over snake bajwa anytime in my life.. stop lying

Yes and a Chinese minister in a recent interview clearly debunked all these claims pushed by anti PTI and anti Imran Khan elements against CPEC. From PML N and within the military some elements tried to portray this picture. Hamid Mir recently also debunked this allegation. Bughz e Imran azaab hai ya rab! How obsessed these people are with IK! lol..

 

[omegalamba7xl9]

Imran Khan: "Give us money

This is how these guys expose their ownselves as Bajwa's pitthu rather than loyalty to Pakistan.
Imran Khan asked China for money for himself? That's a bad humor...

Aisay motherseller Bajwa aur uska gang pay Allah ki, Allah Kay Rasool Pak (P.B.U.H.A) ki lanat jo war say fear say shaken ho jatay Hain.. aur phir dheet makhlooq ki tarah shakal bhi dekhtay hainnn
Dude last pk defence was banned do you remember?
Bajwa is traitor of Pakistan his family will be remember as so...
We will make sure when Bajwa dies we will do izzat afzai with slippers on his grave INSHALLAH...for being motherslelling punks

Son as well as product of motherseller Rt General..... Mithuuu ka pithhhuuu
Mithuuu
We didn't forget you either you part and parcel......

This is how Bajwa ought to end .. I believe like a dog on street

 

[maverick]

Yes and a Chinese minister in a recent interview clearly debunked all these claims pushed by anti PTI and anti Imran Khan elements against CPEC. From PML N and within the military some elements tried to portray this picture. Hamid Mir recently also debunked this allegation. Bughz e Imran azaab hai ya rab! How obsessed these people are with IK! lol..

on this forum u will bunch of low lifers talking trash about imran, coming up with ridiculous claims of him being anti CPEC, such minuscule people.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

My opinion has been the same with regards to Reko-Diq regardless of government. Go back to the old forum and check. If we are to sell a stake it should be a smaller one. 10% for such and such investment and support to get our own mining industry running again.

I have said this should be a partial loss leader to get our own domestic mining industry up and running.

Otherwise, you sell to others and don’t do the critical work yourself, then you squandering the opportunities, and sitting around calling out the foreign investor for “taking advantage” of you.

If there was any real chance of "domestic mining industry up and running", it would had been done so alrrady over the last 7 decades. The money isn't there, neither the machinery nor the expertise otherwise no one is stopping any of the conglomerates in Pakistan from starting the Reqo Diq venture.

I was never for any amnesties. Heck, Pre-IK I realized how crappy the industrial elite of Pakistan were and said if they (the Sharifs who were in charge then) wanted to be a little less corrupt but were able to get things done, it will be the burden we may have to live with. But turns out allowing corruption at all is the undoing of the country. That is why I supported and still support IK. He may be naive and incompetent but he pointed out that corruption squanders our opportunities.

No such thing as Sharifs did little corruption and Cartoon-e-Azam Imran Khan is the pure virgin holy cow that is corruption free.

The guy is corrupt to the core, a corruption enabler and he helped Pakistan become more corrupt than ever before - dropping from 117 to 140 position.

At least others have billions invested in Pakistan's various industries, this guy just steals.

His words are bullshit and his actions are contradictory ("I will commit suicide than go to the IMF"). What happened to those 5 million houses in 5 years he promised to build and do you remember how his incompetent Government discovered water in Pakistan's offshore rather than gas after spending Rs120 billion?

Btw, why did you change your name from Suparco?

I preferred this name and I had asked the admin to merge the other account with this one but it didn't happen.