Sea Sultan Long-Range MPA | Updates & Discussion

[Dreamer]

This will be my last post on the matter because either you're arguing just for the sake of arguing and wanting the last word, or you're too dense to get it (my bet is on the latter).

At no point did I mention anything about a prototype. Developing an MPA based on a civilian platform is significantly more complicated than slapping a few sensors and AShM on an airliner. It requires detailed research and design, studies, and wind tunnel testing if it requires changes to airframe or if external ordnance like AShM or torpedoes are to be carried, not to mention checking the electronic emissions to make sure they do not interfere with other subsystems. This is what you simply don't get, and just think slapping a few sensors on an airliner is all you need to do. A prototype is simply one step in the development cycle.

Here, if you don't believe me, take it from the horses mouth, so to speak. SAAB's own press releases and referring to the development milestones and investments it has made in integrating the subsystems.

https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press...pa-delivers-true-multi-rolemaritime-air-power







The reason why SAAB didn't develop a prototype is simply because of the multiple options customers could choose from in terms of subsystems and weapons, and therefore it didn't see the point in developing a demonstrator for marketing purposes, not because it hadn't done the development work, far from it. More to the point, SAAB did actually own a Bombardier G6000 for simulation and testing purposes.

There's a multitude of reasons why it wasn't ordered, but ultimately it was eclipsed by the P-8, which was already in service and therefore had the full backing of the US and allied nations, who were the primary potential customers of the Swordfish.

Key Aero did an excellent write-up of the aircraft.

https://www.key.aero/article/genesis-swordfish

My friend, I think you are forgetting where this discussion started and where I came in. You made claims that PN should have gone for "existing MPA" where "all the integration work" was already done. This is where I came in and merely asked you where was this mysterious "existing MPA" that was also realistically available to PN in place of sea sultan.

Let's see what you actually said in bold and in red, to which I was responding,

I would agree with you. Besides, if the plan is to have a "western" platform for an MPA to replace the Orions, why not simply acquire one rather than using a completely new civil platform to convert to an MPA, which would turn our more risky and expensive. Instead, an existing MPA has already been mostly derisked, in service, and all the required integration work has been done. Completely baffling.

You've answered your own question. Existing MPAs have already done the integration and testing, and are operational, therefore lower risk. The Embraer platform to my knowledge has not been used before as an MPA, and therefore would require extensive testing and evaluation after the modifications, including structural changes to the airframe. That's added risk, time, and money.

Now you came back with ZERO options in response to my query, as none of the options you gave qualified as either existing or being in sea sultan category.... (so cannot be considered in its place.)

Now you have gone from your previous statements (that I have highlighted above) talking about "in service" & "operational" and "all required integration done" stuff to "design studies" and "simulations". My friend, you need to realize that all of that still makes it only a concept, which is what I said. And not an "existing MPA" as you were claiming. (you named it in response to question about existing MPA )

And I don't know why you are even arguing on this when Saab's own representative called it a "concept" at the time they were abandoning the whole idea. So he said it not in the beginning but at the very end.

The question was "what existing MPA realistically available to PN could be chosen in place of Sea Sultan".

Clearly swordfish is not, never was, and none of the other ones you listed. End of discussion.

 

[Quwa]

My friend, I think you are forgetting where this discussion started and where I came in. You made claims that PN should have gone for "existing MPA" where "all the integration work" was already done. This is where I came in and merely asked you where was this mysterious "existing MPA" that was also realistically available to PN in place of sea sultan.

Let's see what you actually said in bold and in red, to which I was responding,



Now you came back with ZERO options in response to my query, as none of the options you gave qualified as either existing or being in sea sultan category.... (so cannot be considered in its place.)

Now you have gone from your previous statements (that I have highlighted above) talking about "in service" & "operational" and "all required integration done" stuff to "design studies" and "simulations". My friend, you need to realize that all of that still makes it only a concept, which is what I said. And not an "existing MPA" as you were claiming. (you named it in response to question about existing MPA )

And I don't know why you are even arguing on this when Saab's own representative called it a "concept" at the time they were abandoning the whole idea. So he said it not in the beginning but at the very end.

The question was "what existing MPA realistically available to PN could be chosen in place of Sea Sultan".

Clearly swordfish is not, never was, and none of the other ones you listed. End of discussion.

For what it's worth, the Sea Sultan will probably use many of the same subsystems as the Swordfish, like its Leonardo Seaspray AESA radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR turret, Elettronica ESM/ELINT suite, etc. The PN already bought those for use on the RAS-72 Sea Eagle.

Now, it would be really interesting if the PN uses Saab's CMS, RBS-15 AShM, and LWTs. Not likely, but not out of the realm of possibility either.

 

[Dreamer]

For what it's worth, the Sea Sultan will probably use many of the same subsystems as the Swordfish, like its Leonardo Seaspray AESA radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR turret, Elettronica ESM/ELINT suite, etc. The PN already bought those for use on the RAS-72 Sea Eagle.

Now, it would be really interesting if the PN uses Saab's CMS, RBS-15 AShM, and LWTs. Not likely, but not out of the realm of possibility either.

But probably not it's General Dynamics Acoustics Processor. Is that coming from Leonardo for the Sea Sultan?

BTW, i think what's going inside sea sultan is pretty much decided already since work has already started, so no chance of anything different now.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

5-10 Sultans would make difference in future.

 

[CSAW]

"Communications antenna over the fuselage. Radar radome and 2 anti-ship missiles under the fuselage. 2 additional AShM under wings for a total of 4 missiles.
Radar radome under the fuselage and External sonobuoy launching area .
Leonardo SeaSpray 7300E X-band AESA radar.
AStar SAFIRE EO/IR turret under the fuselage.

Italian company Elettronica is offering the ELT/819 ELINT suite, whose modular architecture allows to be configured for various requirements. In addition to tactical intelligence with warning and self-protection capability and accurate data analysis for intelligence-gathering, it can also accommodate COMINT/CESM capabilities.

According to Elettronica, the ELT/819 is part of an unspecified likely multi-sensor suite installed on Bombardier Global Express platforms for an undisclosed customer

Elettronica ESM - ELINT suite with Superhet Digital Receiver architecture Tactical Surveillance (ESM function) and highly accurate data processing for intelligence analysis purposes (ELINT function).

Link Green
No MAD (magnetic anomaly detector) boom."

 

[rumoured maniac]

Why mods allowing people to derail good information threads

 

[White Privilege]

A major task for these planes would be to keep a sharp eye out for IN heavy surface combatants, and co-ordinate Zarb and P-282 strikes in time......

 

[Bilal]

Does anyone have the spec sheet for 7300E ? I can only find for 7500E.

 

[arslank01]

For what it's worth, the Sea Sultan will probably use many of the same subsystems as the Swordfish, like its Leonardo Seaspray AESA radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR turret, Elettronica ESM/ELINT suite, etc. The PN already bought those for use on the RAS-72 Sea Eagle.

Now, it would be really interesting if the PN uses Saab's CMS, RBS-15 AShM, and LWTs. Not likely, but not out of the realm of possibility either.

they picked MX-20

 

[Bratva]

View attachment 18504they picked MX-20

What's the source of SS?

 

[arslank01]

What's the source of SS?

the itar clearance form

 

[arslank01]

also for what its worth- i am gonna guess that the PN will use the IIR variant of Taimur with an anti ship warhead for the air launched ashm duties

 

[Ice-Le0pard]

Has there been any news about further progress in converting the one plane PN has into the full Sea Sultan? The lack of info makes me wonder if budgetary and technical restraints may derail the project

 

[arslank01]

Has there been any news about further progress in converting the one plane PN has into the full Sea Sultan? The lack of info makes me wonder if budgetary and technical restraints may derail the project

2 are being converted and one is being used for training rn (the one we see)- once the other two are back, i take it the other will be converted alongside another- batches of 2.

 

[Oscar]

What's the source of SS?

More importantly - that price!