TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[MMM-E]

KAAN will be so good Fighter Jet as like how AKINCI UCAV become superior to American MQ-9 UCAV



And I shared info which was never shared in regular thread

 

[MMM-E]

Otherwise, plain and simple answer: NO! With the current F110 it is totally underpowered for such a huge and heavy fighter which is not aimed to match the F-15 as a fourth generation fighter, which is already questionable if you look if it matches the latest F-15EX but even more so far a true fifth generation fighter!

100% YES with 5th gen capability


The important thing is low RCS and sensor fusion for 5th gen capability


KAAN with F-110 Engine easly can turn F-15EX into scrap of metal in BVR combat
F-15EX Pilot can not see even KAAN on Radar from 100 km away


RCS
KAAN : 0.01 m2 - 0.003 m2
F-15EX : 5m2

Engagement
KAAN : 175 km
F-15EX : 47 km


No need Dogfight ...
F-15 , F-16 , RAFALE , EUROFİGHTER , SU-35 have no any chance against KAAN in BVR combat



And military knowledge from me to you

F-16 can beat bulky F-35 in dogfight

but stealth F-35 easly can beat F-16 in BVR combat

 

[dbc]

Do we really need another propaganda thread to over hype this type? We have already a regular thread on this surely promising fighter, but another is not needed to re-post again the stuff already posted!

Otherwise, plain and simple answer: NO! With the current F110 it is totally underpowered for such a huge and heavy fighter which is not aimed to match the F-15 as a fourth generation fighter, which is already questionable if you look if it matches the latest F-15EX but even more so far a true fifth generation fighter!

Well OP is barking up the wrong tree. Higher Turbine inlet temperature means more efficient conversion of fuel into thrust - a good thing. Also, higher inlet temperature does not necessarily mean hotter exhaust emission. If the F110 was adequate for fifth generation platforms the Pentagon wouldn't spend billions on a new engine. The engine on the F-35 does much more than power the jet. The F-135 is designed to dramatically minimize IR emissions beyond 30NM. In other words, the nozzel and by-pass is designed to quickly dessipate heat so the aircraft is hard to detect at distances greater than 30NM.

 

[MMM-E]

. If the F110 was adequate for fifth generation platforms the Pentagon wouldn't spend billions on a new engine.

Well OP is barking up the wrong tree

Learn about military before barking

F-35 is a single engine fighter jet and 29.500 lbf F110 Engine is not enough for the F35

Therefore USA has developed 43.000 lbf F-135 engine which developed from F-119 engine
STOVL variant used in the F-35B

And to reduce the F-35's thermal signature, used additional cooling
countermeasures that no other fighter Jet required.

As side effect ofadditional cooling system, it increases RCS "especially" at 6&12 o'clock due to geometric gaps.

 

[dbc]

Learn about military before barking

F-35 is a single engine fighter jet and 29.500 lbf F110 Engine is not enough for the F35

Therefore USA has developed 43.000 lbf F-135 engine which developed from F-119 engine
STOVL variant used in the F-35B

And to reduce the F-35's thermal signature, used additional cooling
countermeasures that no other fighter Jet required.

Please no need for insults. Lets discuss the topic dispassionately.

 

[MMM-E]

Please no need for insults. Lets discuss the topic dispassionately.

You has started insulting first
read your post

Well OP is barking up the wrong tree

 

[dbc]

You has started insulting first
read your post

My bad, I should be more careful when I communicate with non native speakers. Barking up the wrong tree is a common phrase in the English language, see link.

Barking up the wrong tree.

Anyway back to the topic, we could have easily saved a lot of money by developing the F-110 and designing a twin engine F-35, like the KAAN or J-31. But the F-110 didn't have the growth potential to meet the needs of a fifth generation platform. I mean the F-135 incorporates effusion/ transiprational cooling and ceramics. These techniques were yet undiscovered when the F-110 was conceived.

 

[MMM-E]

My bad, I should be more careful when I communicate with non native speakers. Barking up the wrong tree is a common phrase in the English language, see link.

Barking up the wrong tree

Then Ok
lets discuss in a cultured way

 

[MMM-E]

The F-135 is designed to dramatically minimize IR emissions beyond 30NM. In other words, the nozzel and by-pass is designed to quickly dessipate heat so the aircraft is hard to detect at distances greater than 30NM.

Responding the thrust demand with single engine for a 5th gen fighter jet . It is necessary more fuel burnt in single engine means more thermal signature.

In order to reduce RCS at 6 o'clock, the F135 engine should not use additional
cooling flow gaps around the nozzle

Additional external cooling flow gaps around the mentioned nozzle reduce
the thermal signature but increase RCS.

KAAN’s engines will not need any this kind of gaps used cooling air.



Also The F-35 has internal air ducts from under the wing (red dotted square) to around the nozzle. Ducts carry the natural air flow generated by the speed of the aircraft.
Airflow contacts with the rear housing hot surfaces of the engine.

This is a cooling system that transfers engine heat to the air so reduces the heat emitted by engine to the aircraft wing and fuselage. Air ducts cause cavity effect that will increase RCS at 12 oclock



We think that air ducts had been added later to resolve heat signature
problem on the aircraft side. It was not possible to resolve this problem on the
engine itself due to high turbine inlet temperature.

KAAN does not need this under wing air ducts also like F-22

 

[dbc]

KAAN does not need this under wing air ducts also like F-22

Image of the by-pass inlet on the F-22. Like I said before, the by-pass isn't just meant to prevent thermal degradation of engine components. It is also used to cool the avionics and to reduce the heat generated on the surface of the aircraft by parasitic drag. The inlet also serves the added purpose of regulating airflow to the engine in different flight profiles and angle of attack.

 

[MMM-E]

So F-110 Engine doesnt block KAAN to have 5th generation capabilities against F-15 , F-16 , SU-35 , RAFALE , EUROFİGHTER

F110 GE 129 turbofan engines will be used in the first lot prototypes of KAAN

KAAN will have new 35.000 lbf indigenous turbofan Engine which will not need any this kind of gaps used cooling air for the F-35

Also TF-35.000 Engine will have chevron nozzle


F-35 has no super cruise (supersonic without Afterburner)
but dual engine KAAN will have super cruise capability


1-- The single engine powered F-35 has to run constantly in hotter regime in order to generate demanded thrust. This hotter regime even brought peeling problem of RAM panels of the F-35 in areas close to the engine nozzle


2-- F-35 is restricted for a certain cruise speed and afterburner period.
Contrarily, KAAN Turbofan not needs to run into hot regime with high throttle level in order to fly supersonic.

So, not necessary to act extra exhaust gas cooling countermeasure.

3-- KAAN will be a much more agile aircraft in the turning maneuver and will be
superior than F-35. It is almost equivalent to the F-22 in agility in turning maneuvers

KAAN will be much more advantageous in climb rate

 

[Oscar]

There is something you have missed entirely @MMM-E regarding the F-35 and the F-135

https://aerospace.honeywell.com/us/...well-ptms-f35-lightning-ii-platform-heartbeat

This component is what mitigates the higher heat from the engine among other things. To the extent that now the F-35 is testing mirrored surfaces to reflect even the smaller heat sources to reduce its signature further.

The KAAN could also take a similar approach as well. The engine temperature isn’t the problem as such - its power to weight ratio and overall RCS reduction that will impact it and so far the KAAN is a midway compromise.

There are also indications that Turkiye is moving from the KAAN to 6th generation concepts with AI just because its gained knowledge on those subjects (relatively)

 

[MMM-E]

F-35 Engines rack up $38 billion in extra maintenance costs​

Auditors from the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) say a failure to design in adequate cooling capability for the jet’s advanced sensors and radar will add an extra $38 billion to the total life-cycle cost of the USA’s F-35 programme

Overtaxed F-35 engines rack up $38 billion in extra maintenance costs

US government auditors say a failure to improve output and cooling capacity on the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine powering the Lockheed Martin F-35, while simultaneously increasing the load from heat-producing sensors and radar, has significantly increased wear on the powerplant and the cost of...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[dbc]

We think that air ducts had been added later to resolve heat signature
problem on the aircraft side. It was not possible to resolve this problem on the
engine itself due to high turbine inlet temperature.

Wrong again, the ducts you highlight in the image above is the roll post specific to the F-35 B. You can see it in the below image next to the landing gear. By pass air is directed from these nozzeles to stabilize the aircraft during landing.

 

[Oscar]

F-35 Engines rack up $38 billion in extra maintenance costs​

Auditors from the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) say a failure to design in adequate cooling capability for the jet’s advanced sensors and radar will add an extra $38 billion to the total life-cycle cost of the USA’s F-35 programme

Overtaxed F-35 engines rack up $38 billion in extra maintenance costs

US government auditors say a failure to improve output and cooling capacity on the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine powering the Lockheed Martin F-35, while simultaneously increasing the load from heat-producing sensors and radar, has significantly increased wear on the powerplant and the cost of...

www.flightglobal.com

How is it related to KAAN?