The Munir Doctrine

[FuturePAF]

Military has entered Agriculture. Think of other domains.

So you are saying all things Agriculture are their purview alone.

 

[FuturePAF]

Have you tried ?

Why so defensive?

I have run a business, but not in such headwinds. Why would “rich” Pakistanis invest in such an environment. In the last 18 months, Pakistanis living in Pakistan have moved $10 Billion out of the country, per the first video I posted.

Btw, go back to the quote by foreign investors to General Munir as reported in an earlier post on this thread; “why are you stopping us from investing in your country”.

The answer must be Joint ventures with ToT, because the ROI for independent R&D is low and takes far too long.

 

[Signalian]

So you are saying all things Agriculture are their purview alone.

No, that’s your assumption.

I said that since you give up so easily.

 

[Signalian]

Why so defensive?

I have run a business, but not in such headwinds. Why would “rich” Pakistanis invest in such an environment. In the last 18 months, Pakistanis living in Pakistan have moved $10 Billion out of the country, per the first video I posted.

Btw, go back to the quote by foreign investors to General Munir as reported in an earlier post on this thread; “why are you stopping us from investing in your country”.

I have tried a few times and failed. I want to try again in a few years time.

 

[Goenitz]

Get out of the blame game rut, seriously its getting boring. And India is way ahead of Pakistan in many domain.

Address this part ," Civvies need to do their part". and don't go into politics domain as there are dozens other domains which need progression.

It was not political. E.Pak used to consume a lot of grains as it pop was greater than West.
I am not sure now how India got getting higher yield but it was modified seeds for sure. However, Indra did a lot in her reign about this. It was a continuous 4-5 years effort. I can find the link of the program later.

Then Amul story. How it started processing milk in various ways. Helped India to fight malnutrition and vitamin A&D deficiency. Pak equivalent was Halla (Zafar Altaf). PMLN got him caught in various cases as it was putting Anhaar in jeopardy.

 

[Signalian]

It was not political. E.Pak used to consume a lot of grains as it pop was greater than West.
I am not sure now how India got getting higher yield but it was modified seeds for sure. However, Indra did a lot in her reign about this. It was a continuous 4-5 years effort. I can find the link of the program later.

Then Amul story. How it started processing milk in various ways. Helped India to fight malnutrition and vitamin A&D deficiency. Pak equivalent was Halla (Zafar Altaf). PMLN got him caught in various cases as it was putting Anhaar in jeopardy.

India also has political and showbiz influence on businesses, but that isn't the concern here.

Pakistan has Agricultural Uni or Unis and maybe agricultural research departments in some universities. That is where the answer is hidden.

 

[Oscar]

Speaking of the rather contextual criticism heaped upon many Pakistani military officers and I am not referring to the current or former COAS or leadership - of which can be just and unjust based upon political loyalties or knowing society; let me offer an analogous contrast -

People with poor characters or judgement make it up the ranks of pretty much every armed force in the world. Whether it is a personality flaw that otherwise translates into increased selfishness which coupled with sycophancy and shrewd relationship building allows these individuals to rise up the ranks or simply social pressures: such individuals not only harm the careers of many an honest officer but are also damaging to the institution when they make higher leadership.

Here is a comment by some individual on a current USAF general - whether accurate or not - one side of the story or not - I am posting it to counter the idea that somehow corruption (of all kinds.. not just monetary alone or not of it) is the bastion of Pakistan’s army and therefore they deserve all the ire.




Now this could be baseless character assassination of a honest good officer due to a personal grudge or this could truly be an image of a man who while having some redeeming qualities may not be fit for his ranks - but what is key to understand is that such characters exist in known quantity within the USAF, USMC, US Army, US Navy, RAF,RN,RA, IDF, JSDF,PLA,PLAAF IA, IN, IAF and so on.
There are people Ive heard of here who have destroyed careers of brilliant men including that of Colonel Boyd the father of modern air combat and modern strategy. But for each of them there are excellent ones and the there’s the 80% average joe/shabbir whose performances are within the bell curve.

The percentage of such characters is dependent upon factors such as overall socioeconomic characteristics and norms along with the acceptance those national flaws at the institutional level.. but while it may seem unbelievable to certain political affiliates that Pakistan isn’t the worst, it actually seems closer to the average if skewed towards the higher side than MANY, MANY other military forces.

What is impactful is how accountability for such individuals takes place when they get the opportunity for and engage in much worse acts than being poor officers and leaders - which is where Pakistan fares worse than other nations but to assume that there isn’t any elsewhere or isn’t worse than Pakistan is just another problem with the psyche of a nation is closest in character to Bani Israel than the Israelis themselves.

 

[Signalian]

Pak equivalent was Halla (Zafar Altaf). PMLN got him caught in various cases as it was putting Anhaar in jeopardy.

don’t take it personal but this is the typical mindset which Pakistanis need to abolish. Something was tried but it bit the dust and that’s the end of it.

Change the mindset.

 

[Rego]

I have tried a few times and failed. I want to try again in a few years time.

You want to invest in Pakistan? All economic indicators point towards an impending freefall.

You truly are brave!

 

[FuturePAF]

India also has political and showbiz influence on businesses, but that isn't the concern here.

Pakistan has Agricultural Uni or Unis and maybe agricultural research departments in some universities. That is where the answer is hidden.

I agree that it would best for our own universities and research institutions to be given the business to develop our own seed varieties, whose sole ownership would be in Pakistani hands.

Furthermore, ultimately, politicians come and politicians go, but kernel of the issue is focusing on solving the underlying issue, one way or another. If the domestic institutions were falling behind in tech, then they were not getting the funding or staff they need to make the breakthroughs.

Our crop yields are sub-par. The more we fall behind, the less competitive our agricultural products become. These agricultural products are the raw materials into other industries. So the effect is cascading. Ultimately in the video with Uzair comes the issue that if the Indian economy is 12x our size, that will be a national security threat in and of itself. So, we need a plan that can be implemented quickly and effectively.

The issue is not about giving up, but not about competing with each other in the domestic market, but working together to increase national exports.

 

[nahtanbob]

Ill just say the military comes from the same society and gene pool. While a LOT of improvement happens on the ethics and morality side - there is still the impact of where you came from and who you are as a person which slips through for a small but impactful number of individuals.

Its a case of society that is essentially suffering an issue of overall ethics and morality that impacts every individual regardless of their profession. Politicians only focus on elections and then fat contracts to their relatives, A doctor will leave a patient dying for lack of payment - banker will cause headaches on files, driver licenses can no longer be had smoothly in some places without bribery and some officers in military procurement will embezzle millions.

Unfortunately, the military is going to now get more and more focus due to the political crisis and that they are the only ones with the biggest gun of everyone.

To quote the late Arshider cowasjee “Sab saala chor hai siwaye Quaid e Azam ke”

A military general at the top with his power & perks, DHA plots can afford to be independent of low level scum bags. I am suspecting they do not get involved in low level stuff.

I am surprised at the low level of ethics in Pakistani society given the amount of attention by Pakistanis to Islam. I cannot generalize here. I suspect the attention to Islam is purely on the political and symbolic side of things. I always assumed India would be more tolerant of the lapses in ethics which still might be true. India might be better not because they are more ethical but because they are more competent and practical at running a society.

 

[Cryptonian]

Sitting idle and pointing fingers is a national disease.

Same land with a border between them , but twice the yield .
Pakistan has plenty of scope to grow the yield, it can easily feed 40 crore population.

If military wants to intervene then why not intervene in property market instead of venturing into a new domain.




34 Mound is 1200 ~kg.

 

[Oscar]

A military general at the top with his power & perks, DHA plots can afford to be independent of low level scum bags. I am suspecting they do not get involved in low level stuff.

I am surprised at the low level of ethics in Pakistani society given the amount of attention by Pakistanis to Islam. I cannot generalize here. I suspect the attention to Islam is purely on the political and symbolic side of things. I always assumed India would be more tolerant of the lapses in ethics which still might be true. India might be better not because they are more ethical but because they are more competent and practical at running a society.

That I do not disagree with - although one could call the current leadership’s approach immoral if efficient in basically harmonizing under one ideology and opinion.

 

[Oscar]

Same land with a border between them , but twice the yield .
Pakistan has plenty of scope to grow the yield, it can easily feed 40 crore population.

If military wants to intervene then why not intervene in property market instead of venturing into a new domain.


View attachment 9334

34 Mound is 1200 ~kg.
View attachment 9333

lack of feudalism for one - they work hand in hand in Pakistan with other players in sector to not modernize and propagate bonded labor.

More yield, more efficient production, less need for supporting products and labor. Less price manipulation and hoarding. The entire system willingly or coerced or unwilling works in concert to remain where it is.

 

[Oscar]

don’t take it personal but this is the typical mindset which Pakistanis need to abolish. Something was tried but it bit the dust and that’s the end of it.

Change the mindset.

Kaise huzoor.. where it came from it still exists