Why were Arab armed forces so ineffective?

[ziaulislam]

the issue is you are not defining 'end result' in military terms.


you are wrong. they occupied south Lebanon for 18 years from 1982 and are still occupying some parts of Lebanon (and the Syrian Golan Heights)


ask why the objective changed


end result: occupation ended (2000), invasion failed (2006)

2 IDF terrorists killed and many injured by Hezbollah in last 24 hours. 5 Hezbollah troops martyred in same time period. Hezbollah has fired 800+ ATGMs and 2000+ rockets into Israel since October 8th. Hezbollah is the one group that is not "quiet" in the face of Israel's genocide in Gaza (along with Yemen and Iraqi Resistance).

Disagree

Invasion objective to supress hezboullah was complete success
Hezboullah has been quiet since 2006 not a threat anymore

Even by some miracle if Israel leaves Gaza it objective will be complete
I.e scaring Palestinians (and Arabs) into submission of accepting Israel right on Jerusalem and forcing culling the Palestinians population

Just like how 1940-1980 wars were all successful

You take make and then you leave some on the negotiation table that's how things work in real life

1967 Israel takes over holy mosques/west bank
1973 Israel takes over defacto all Palestine and gets peace for ever with its neighbors ..or surrender if you ask me
2006 Lebanon is wrecked and destabilized for ever
Iraq is wrecked through proxy and Arab states support
Syria is wrecked through proxy and Arab states support
Libya wrecked through Arab states and proxy
I think only Saudis and Iranians are left ..how do we solve this problem simple..let get some shia sunni hate in there ..problem solved

 

[ziaulislam]

nonsense, they were willing to return Golan Heights to Syria just as they were willing to return Sinai to Egypt

Golan Heights is not more strategic than the Sinai, or South Lebanon.

they occupied Golan Heights and all of Palestine for 50+ years already

Total Arab population is irrelevant in age of nation states ... Israel occupies land of neighbours not of Arabs 1000s of km away.

How far is Eygpt from Israel, Jordan from Israel Lebanon from Israel and Syria from Israel??

Yes and that's there is focus west bank, Gaza and current Israel and the temple

They are already stretched thin...

Sure if Jordan /Syria accept Israel legitimacy on al qudus they will return golans heights it's worth the trade just like how they traded Sinai for eygptians

Bottom line:
Every war ended with Israel takin more and more Palestine and getting more and more Arabs accepting it legitimacy.. legitimacy is everything in the new world order

Arabs think that Israel wrecking elsewhere and then returning it is a victory against a 50x smaller population who can't even spread itself that thin

My take is in 2025 trump will visit Saudi and then Saudi are going to accept Israel ending this Arab Israel war for ever ..Israel may or may not leave Gaza alone though it being self governed has no value..the objectives are culling and putting the Arabs lefts in lane which will happen

Pakistanis will jump into since we(generals) are slaves to saudis money but people of Pakistan will never accept handing over the al qudus to Israelis it so it won't be easy for Pakistani generals to pull this out

Nationalist and delusional Arabs will then claim victory that Gaza was left to be in siege again

I would say wtf

 

[Waz]

Now that is very very odd way of looking at things ..I would have thought stating Israel did better being the smaller force and ahould have actually more mortality and losses

Are you going to say Pakistani losses were 10x more then India if they were equal since per capita


Okay so we lost more airplanes then India in 1965 adjusting for per capita and wait the 30,000 troops being captured are 180,000 per capita


Sir what the ???

It's odd for you fair enough.
The Israeli war machine had better weapons and they came in greater quantities during the resupply efforts, so yes they were smaller but had a greater punch. Look up the guns on the Israeli tanks and the type of ammunition used.

Why are you bringing Pakistan into this?
Neutral reports put the aircraft losses at this 20 PAF and 60–75 IAF! Where did you get that Pakistan lost more planes in 1965? This is a well known fact.
Can you just stick to the topic.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

Why are Arab armed forces so ineffective? https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/05/05/why-are-arab-armed-forces-so-ineffective

Reminds me of ANA. Anyways soldiers need junoon to protect motherland or fight for other reasons like Taliban.

Another reason is Arab countries are not involved in war and got easy oil money.

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."
G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain

 

[ziaulislam]

It's odd for you fair enough.
The Israeli war machine had better weapons and they came in greater quantities during the resupply efforts, so yes they were smaller but had a greater punch. Look up the guns on the Israeli tanks and the type of ammunition used.

Why are you bringing Pakistan into this?
Neutral reports put the aircraft losses at this 20 PAF and 60–75 IAF! Where did you get that Pakistan lost more planes in 1965? This is a well known fact.
Can you just stick to the topic.

Per your way of reporting Pakistan lost more airplanes(200 vs 60) then India per capital hence it was decisive win for Iaf

I am using your logic(see how flawed this is)

Remember Pakistan has advantage of surprise and many IAF aircraft were destroyed on the ground (as did eygptians had)

Some of Israeli weapons were superior but they were completely outnumber and were in pincer attack from all sides

The weapons eygptians and were decent, just like how Pakistan weapons were inferior to indians in some aspects especially in 1971

Regardless the Arab defeat wasn't in the battlefield that was status quo it was on the negotiation table

 

[Persian Gulf]

2006 Lebanon is wrecked and destabilized for ever

in 2006 Hezbollah had 13,000 rockets

today it has 200,000 rockets and short range ballistic missiles

you show a very weak understanding of Hezbollah and its conflict with Israel

 

[ziaulislam]

in 2006 Hezbollah had 13,000 rockets

today it has 200,000 rockets and short range ballistic missiles

you show a very weak understanding of Hezbollah and its conflict with Israel

And we have 50,000 dead Arabs.. wrecked bankrupted Lebanon with Israel walking every day with strike in Lebanon

does it matter if they have 10m or 20m rockets

 

[Persian Gulf]

And we have 50,000 dead Arabs..does it matter if they have 10m or 20m rockets

why changing the topic? what does Gaza have to do with Lebanon and what you said about Israel leaving Hezbollah "wrecked forever" in 2006 !?

 

[ziaulislam]

why changing the topic? what does Gaza have to do with Lebanon and what you said about Israel leaving Hezbollah "wrecked forever" in 2006 !?

Thanks for coming back to what I am trying to say Arab nationalism is dead.

So Lebanon has nothing to do with Palestine..okay then indeed hezboullah achieved victory though it could have been achieved without destroying the economy by simply accepting Israel like Eygpt and Jordan did or simply not becoming a threat to Israel to begin with(i.e not firing rockets into it)

 

[Persian Gulf]

indeed hezboullah achieved victory

finally you admit basic facts. glad we agree

 

[ThirdFaculty]

Syria when they attacked the Golan heights in 73 were on the verge of capturing the whole area the Israeli defence were out of ammo and there defensive lines were about to collapse guess what happened………Assad’s father told his army to withdraw!!!!!!

The reason for the incompetence is that they are easily brought just like Pakistani generals. They don’t give a shit about the cause

 

[ziaulislam]

finally you admit basic facts. glad we agree

Yes I agree that Saudis, eygptians and jordianains are doing great better then Iran
I agree hezboullah did Great by cleaning up a mess it created (Lebanon was invaded due to hezboullah messing up with Israel)


My issue is why do we say Arab vs Israel...there is no Arab vs Israel it's only Palestine (or just Hamas not even in Plf as they are touts to Israelis in west bank) vs Saudi Arabia Eygpt and Israel

Israel are allies with Saudis and eygptians against Hamas who is the only elected representative of Palestinians

This is whole group has been hijacked by Arabs always claiming Israel vs Eygpt etc when Israel and Eygpt are allies now..

They work together against elected Palestinians representative (Hamas) which is banned in Eygpt and Saudi

Eygpt and Saudis consider Palestinians (Hamas) as terrorists
As far eygptians in 1982 yes they did the right thing for themselves I mean who would disagree with that..it was in their interests to stab the Palestinians

Just like it is in punjab or pathans interest to stab kashmiris I mean what do we get in return ??

So yes hezboullah, Eygpt all won the war on negotiation table if that's how you look at it
Jordan and Syria can get their golan heights too just need to accept Israel claims on Jerusalem

Jordan king is trying to resist but my guess is sooner then later he will officially relinquish his claim on al qudus(which at this moment held by Jordan)

 

[Persian Gulf]

Yes I agree that Saudis, eygptians and jordianains are doing great better then Iran

I think you have a future in comedy

 

[muhammed45]

Hmmm..I wonder who got Islam to Turkey and Persia..

It was prophet Muhammed's holy soul that has conquered every where in the region with his absolute rightfulness.

 

[Waz]

Per your way of reporting Pakistan lost more airplanes(200 vs 60) then India per capital hence it was decisive win for Iaf

I am using your logic(see how flawed this is)

Remember Pakistan has advantage of surprise and many IAF aircraft were destroyed on the ground (as did eygptians had)

Some of Israeli weapons were superior but they were completely outnumber and were in pincer attack from all sides

The weapons eygptians and were decent, just like how Pakistan weapons were inferior to indians in some aspects especially in 1971

Regardless the Arab defeat wasn't in the battlefield that was status quo it was on the negotiation table

It's not my 'per way' of reporting or my logic. There's far more factors at play in the Indo/Pak theatre than the Middle Eastern wars. Where else in the world did two Second World War armies fight one another multiple times?
No it wasn't just 'some' of the weapons, many were superior.
The Israelis had superior tactics.
Agreed with the whole letdown on the negotiation table.