Turkey also has to Thank Pakistan for selecting it in this massive billion dollar deal. Its a win for Turkish defense industry. It was largest defense deal at the time for Turkish local industry.
Babur-Class (MILGEM) Corvette | Updates & Discussion
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Turkey also has to Thank Pakistan for selecting it in this massive billion dollar deal. Its a win for Turkish defense industry. It was largest defense deal at the time for Turkish local industry.
AZADPAKISTAN2009
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Turkey is a wonderful Nation from Pakistan's view point
Money is not everything , friendship and trust go along way
In past when we sought Awacs , we could not get them in 80's
In past when we sought more F16 we had problems
When we sought ships we got tug boats given to us
But with Turkey , as soon as we showed interest we got access to new Corvettes
Cooperation with Turkey has put Pakistan Navy on map of respectable Navies of world , sure we have a distance to go but we are on right track
Money is not everything , friendship and trust go along way
In past when we sought Awacs , we could not get them in 80's
In past when we sought more F16 we had problems
When we sought ships we got tug boats given to us
But with Turkey , as soon as we showed interest we got access to new Corvettes
Cooperation with Turkey has put Pakistan Navy on map of respectable Navies of world , sure we have a distance to go but we are on right track
Dude, its just the business! nothing else. Turkey isn't doing anything exclusively for Pakistan. Turkey will sell to any country of the world which pays it. Its simple it that.
Totally Incorrect. Pakistan never paid attention to its Navy until recently. If France can sell its state of the art Agosta-90B submarines in late 90's to Pakistan along with transfer of technology then don't you think they would have sold their frigates to us as well? We would have 10 FREMM frigates if we would have money and paid it. But we never had money and were looking for ex-US or ex-UK ships, once they retire we buy that old retiring hulls at lowest possible costs.
we did agreement with Turkey for corvettes few years ago, at the same time period we did agreements with China for Type54As and with Damen in Europe. We got what we wanted from those suppliers too. So your point is so factually wrong!
FFS!, you would have got 4 corvettes from plethora of shipbuilders in the world. You liked Turkish deal and you went with it. Don't be silly and don't move heavens and earth in praise. It looks embarrassing tbh. Turkey has put PN on map of "respectable" LMAO!... PN's tip of the spear is still its submarine fleet anyway. If PN has any deterrence and is will be in "respectable" list that will be due to its SSP fleet.
Bottomline is, don't get me wrong! I like the Babur corvettes. I think the deal was good because of ToT and I understand Pakistan has friendly ties with Turkey. But I certainly don't agree with your context that pretends as if there is some special relationship or some special favor that Turkey is bestowing upon Pakistan exclusively OR if Pakistan couldn't have got ships from anywhere else. It already is getting very capable platforms from other places and in much competitive costs.
Ghseean
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Dear Awwad, what kind of narrative are you trying to built here, please give me something with clear thought, if i may have.
it just give me a whirlwind in my head.
AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:
Turkey is a wonderful Nation from Pakistan's view point
Money is not everything , friendship and trust go along way
"Dude, its just the business! nothing else. Turkey isn't doing anything exclusively for Pakistan. Turkey will sell to any country of the world which pays it. Its simple it that."
it just give me a whirlwind in my head.
AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:
Turkey is a wonderful Nation from Pakistan's view point
Money is not everything , friendship and trust go along way
"Dude, its just the business! nothing else. Turkey isn't doing anything exclusively for Pakistan. Turkey will sell to any country of the world which pays it. Its simple it that."
FFS!, you would have got 4 corvettes from plethora of shipbuilders in the world. You liked Turkish deal and you went with it. Don't be silly and don't move heavens and earth in praise. It looks embarrassing tbh. Turkey has put PN on map of "respectable" LMAO!... PN's tip of the spear is still its submarine fleet anyway. If PN has any deterrence and is will be in "respectable" list that will be due to its SSP fleet.
Hakikat ve Hikmet
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Yes, money is definitely involved for these defense gadgets. But, the Western suppliers can blackmail and sanction you too, especially when you need them the most! Haven't you seen it before?
As for selling the most secretive technologies, especially in the EW/EA domains, Turkey won't sell the most effective solutions to every country.....
Dreamer
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I wondered too. BTW, did you change your name?
I don't understand your point. You copied & mixed text from 3 different posts without properly quoting them.
There's nothing to confuse, I wrote in very simple english. Pakistan is a customer buying ships from a shildbuilder. Its just business as usual. No one is giving favors to anyone.
Infact, its always the seller who has to show maximum gratitude towards its customers, not the other way around. Such massive orders help build country's defense industry & production, create jobs etc.
Bottomline is, Turkey isn't favoring Pakistan, its just fulfilling a customer order. detach any emotions from it.
Edit: Just to make clear, I didn't started this topic. I just responded to the post that was hilarious and like "thank you thank you Turkey you made us so powerful etc. with your cooperation we are resp........ " crazy i have to re-explain
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Ghseean
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you said in post # 61:
"Turkey also has to Thank Pakistan for selecting it in this massive billion dollar deal. Its a win for Turkish defense industry. It was largest defense deal at the time for Turkish local industry."
then you replied to AzadPakistan:
""Dude, its just the business! nothing else. Turkey isn't doing anything exclusively for Pakistan. Turkey will sell to any country of the world which pays it. Its simple it that.""
in another post you replied Azad Pakistan:
"Don't be silly and don't move heavens and earth in praise. It looks embarrassing tbh. Turkey has put PN on map of "respectable" LMAO!"
Now compare your first post with those replies to other member.
Ghseean
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a bit of alphabets here and there, yes.
Ghseean
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you misunderstood me.
I think I made my point pretty clear and people are acknowledging it. Let's not ruin the thread in meaningless arguments.
It feels like I am running a Montessori class now. Try to understand point of view of the other member first. What I said in whatever posts, you have to see the context and what I am responding to. The crux of every post is exactly the same.
Ghseean
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i usually ignore such takes. but if you clearly cannot see what are you saying.
you must stay on one side with your narrative.
on one hand you say Turkey must thank Pakistan for that order. on the other side to a members you say, it being business and turkey isn't doing anything exclusive.
everything is business dear so keep it that way.
and i am ignoring you being not running a montessori or what people are acknowledging to put some weight-age. this is meaningless argument.
It's always okay to extend thanks as a professional courtesy and that's all. In business / services that you offer, you do express gratitude towards your customer for using their services. The customer can also thank you back for your services. But that's at it. It's not beyond this. You both know, you are just doing business and could have done from elsewhere too. The service provider will do exactly same service for any other customer too. There aren't any favors.
That's why I told you to look at the content what I am responding to in each post. My other post was in response to the comment that gone way and beyond just gratitude. That comment was basically saying that PN was nothing and Turkey made it to the respectable lists and PN could not have got corvettes from anywhere. That was just wrong factually. Turkey was & is doing just the business and nothing. Dutch, Italian, South Koreans, Chinese anyone would gladly produce ships for Pakistan.
Hope this clear for you now ?
Ghseean
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professional courtesy is between two parties, we are not here to say anything on behalf of any of the party involved, it is their job towards each other.
if you would say: "Turkey must thank..." it is a concluding statement. everyone has his or her own point of view. so it is better to keep matters open to discussion by not giving a concluding statement.
although it is an open forum with everyone sharing thoughts. we just discuss matters to the limit which we must know/do as a discussion point of view.
first thing first, one must have courage to accept constructive criticism and critical to ones self. learning new things must always be welcomed.
i conclude with this discussion here, thanks.
Fair point. The word 'must' wasn't really appropriate. But you took it without context. You do realize, it was in reaction to the other post. It wasn't too difficult to understand my point which was very clear from the beginning. My next replies were in response to posts which assumes that only Turkey in whole world came forward and did some kind of favor to Pakistan by building those ships.
I am all open to +ve criticism which actually contributes to the topic on hand. That whole fuss about what I said, was unnecessary.
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