Bangladesh Socio-Political Crisis 2024

[LeonBlack08]

"International Crimes Tribunal" and "Genocide"?

This is a domestic court and then need to understand what the word genocide actually means.

They are completely correct for filing it as "Genocide" per the legal definition of Genocide in accordance with United Nations Genocide Convention.

 

[Arthur]

Bangldeshis are making a crucial misake that they think supporting Hasina and BAL was a BJP policy. 1/11, 2008 election, 2009 BDR killings, 2013 election all took place during Congress rule.

We should not incorrectly minimize the problem, the problem is the policy of India as a state, not of BJP or Congress.

I agree.

I believe Indian eshtablishment is just accustomed to overestimating their weight. Just futilely trying to put on the boot of British colony.

From outside it just seems, India’s diplomacy is controlled by it’s intelligence agencies, rather the diplomats.

Or may be there is little to no difference between them on thought level.

This didn’t serve USA well. It will be same for India.

 

[UKBengali]

They are completely correct for filing it as "Genocide" per the legal definition of Genocide in accordance with United Nations Genocide Convention.

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1. It was BD Muslims mainly killing some BD Muslims. You cannot commite genocide against your ethnic and religious group.

2. There is nowhere near enough people that were killed to even think about genocide even if they were a different ethnic/religious group to those that did the killing. A court would never think the numbers were high enough to merit this definition.

What is happening in Gaza is genocide and we do not need clowns that throw around the word genocide loosely and make BD a laughing stock of a country. Image matters. and this is not helping.

 

[LeonBlack08]

1. It was BD Muslims mainly killing some BD Muslims. You cannot commite genocide against your ethnic and religious group.

2. There is nowhere near enough people that were killed to even think about genocide even if they were a different ethnic/religious group to those that did the killing. A court would never think the numbers were high enough to merit this definition.

What is happening in Gaza is genocide and we do not need clowns that throw around the word genocide loosely and make BD a laughing stock of a country. Image matters. and this is not helping.

Doesn't matter who killing who - you cannot project your interpretation of the definition on the law. Besides argument can be made that secular institutes (BD govt, police and RAB) killed a religious group i.e. Hefajat- who are a non-political religious group. As long as the criteria is met and they can prove the intent, they can try their case in whatever approach they feel the best.

As for death toll - the case of Uyghurs in China are categorized under genocide, even though the death toll is only about 200. Plus the dehumanization accusations i.e. re-education camps, sterilizations and restrictions on religious symbols. Same argument could be used by Hefajot whose members were killed, abducted, illegally imprisoned and raids conducted in their homes and madrassahs to harrass, violating their rights.

Let Hefajat's lawyers figure that out how they want to prove it in court. They are clearly operting with more information than we are.

 

[UKBengali]

Doesn't matter who killing who - you cannot project your interpretation of the definition on the law. Besides argument can be made that secular institutes (BD govt, police and RAB) killed a religious group i.e. Hefajat- who are a non-political religious group. As long as the criteria is met and they can prove the intent, they can try their case in whatever approach they feel the best.

As for death toll - the case of Uyghurs in China are categorized under genocide, even though the death toll is only about 200. Plus the dehumanization accusations i.e. re-education camps, sterilizations and restrictions on religious symbols. Same argument could be used by Hefajot whose members were killed, abducted, illegally imprisoned and raids conducted in their homes and madrassahs to harrass, violating their rights.

Let Hefajat's lawyers figure that out how they want to prove it in court. They are clearly operting with more information than we are.

Only ICC and ICJ lawyers are in any position to define what is genocide.

By its nature it needs to be handled by international judicial bodies like this.

I have nothing else to say on this and hope the new interim government gets rid of this clown court as it was set up by that narcissistic Hasina to eliminate her political opponents.

 

[Alter_Ego]

I agree.

I believe Indian eshtablishment is just accustomed to overestimating their weight. Just futilely trying to put on the boot of British colony.

From outside it just seems, India’s diplomacy is controlled by it’s intelligence agencies, rather the diplomats.

Or may be there is little to no difference between them on thought level.

This didn’t serve USA well. It will be same for India.

Bangladesh in some ways could bee seen as a equal or greater threat to Union of India than Pakistan. Which is not strange considering the chicken neck.

Should BD become staunch anti-Indian like Pakistan, entire 7 sisters states will immidiately feel the pressure. Divert attention from the India/Pakistan border. Chinese PLA is also building up infrastructure along its border in the very same area.

Arguably, India is far more vulnerable in the north west, than along its western border.

 

[Arthur]

Bangladesh in some ways could bee seen as a equal or greater threat to Union of India than Pakistan. Which is not strange considering the chicken neck.

Should BD become staunch anti-Indian like Pakistan, entire 7 sisters states will immidiately feel the pressure. Divert attention from the India/Pakistan border. Chinese PLA is also building up infrastructure along its border in the very same area.

Arguably, India is far more vulnerable in the north west, than along its western border.

Not only military but also socially & economically.

Neighbouring Indian sates are all economically broken.

A independent & prosperous Bangladesh might inspire the independence movements in North-Estern states.

This was never the case for Pakistan. It's economy & society never had the chance to transform due to the feudalist mentality of it’s military & political class.

But Bangladesh has transformed, albeit their are lot of issues, but it’s still on the track.

Now Bangladesh uprising even motivating Pakistanis to seek change for better.

Imagine if that happens to India also. That's the biggest nightmare for the central (more like a colonial) government in Delhi.

 

[Arthur]

This article is quiet interesting. The hawks in delhi, this case, one Brahma cHilani, wrote up this garbage. But very indicative of the intentions of Hawks in delhi.

1. Trying to paint the popular uprising as a "military coup".

2. Denying Bangladeshi People political agency by painting them as a " mob"

3. A passive "concern" about Bangladesh Military. Which in his term is "oversized" & unnecessary for Bangladesh .

4. Trying to put Hasina as the savior by using the " Islamist backed" movement.

5. Distorting facts & informations to malign the Army.

Same type of 'typical' narrative we also encountered in this forum from most Indian members.

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4831210-a-quiet-military-coup-in-bangladesh/

 

[LeonBlack08]

Same type of 'typical' narrative we also encountered in this forum from most Indian members.

Per post payment comes from the same source after all.

 

[Afif]

Well, well, well! Another big fish is kicked out. Rear Admiral Sholail has been sent to compulsory retirement. This is one of Hassina's thug that served in DGFI and RAB.

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@LeonBlack08 @Bengal71 @AbuShalehRumi @Arthur @Alter_Ego

Guys, we got him.

Ex-state minister Tajul, AL leader Ahmed among three arrested

Three people, including former state minister for liberation war affairs Captain (retired) AB Tajul Islam and Awami League Organising Secretary Ahmed Hossain, have been arrested in Dhaka last night

www.thedailystar.net

Let's remain vigilante. @LeonBlack08 @Alter_Ego @Arthur @AbuShalehRumi et al.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Let us worry about our country, you worry about yours.

In case you and your fellow Shanghi Bhakts still don't get it, you are not welcome here.

You lot can open a thread in the Indian section and cry your heart out for losing your beloved pet.

Bangldeshis are making a crucial misake that they think supporting Hasina and BAL was a BJP policy. 1/11, 2008 election, 2009 BDR killings, 2013 election all took place during Congress rule.

We should not incorrectly minimize the problem, the problem is the policy of India as a state, not of BJP or Congress.

Perhaps you are right, although it sticks in my throat to agree even partially.
Part of my reluctance is due to including incidents like the 2009 BDR killings, where, in spite of the random remarks of a single investigator, there has never been any evidence proving India's involvement; for that matter, there has never been any reason identified for the killings to be something that India/ the Indian establishment might wish for, and strive to bring about. How was that supposed to benefit India?

Also the 2013 election. One factor that must be kept in mind is that under Manmohan Singh, R&W was under strict monitoring and the kind of reckless adventurism on display never took place. During the earlier Morarji Desai tenure, a much earlier tenure, R&W had had its operations curtailed dramatically. While Manmohan Singh, and the intervening authorities between him and Morarji, never took any steps to reduce R&W further, the organisation was practically in suspended animation until the BJP came in.

The Indian External Affairs Ministry was a player only during the liberation struggle. Pakistan's Consul in Calcutta, Mehdi Masud, was detained (when the Calcutta Consulate staff flocked to the Bangladesh banner in their entirety) on the ground floor of the building where we then lived, but even though my father was a very senior government official, and we occupied the next two floors upstairs, we were severely discouraged from even human and civil interactions with the poor man. Subsequently, the Ministry role was cut back to normal levels, and they were not players. There was nobody to rig the 2013 elections.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Was Bangladesh India’s Latest Intelligence Failure?

There are three possible explanations for why the Indian government misread the situation in Bangladesh so catastrophically.

m.thewire.in

@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri, thoughts?

I posted in detail, perhaps it missed your notice.

 

[Joe Shearer]

From outside it just seems, India’s diplomacy is controlled by it’s intelligence agencies, rather the diplomats.

This is a feature of the kind of ill-organised administration of the present regime, when the professionals are not allowed to do their jobs, and other unconnected individuals given a freedom to interfere.

 

[Arthur]

This is a feature of the kind of ill-organised administration of the present regime, when the professionals are not allowed to do their jobs, and other unconnected individuals given a freedom to interfere.

Very alarming not only for India, but also the subcontinent in whole.

I am afraid the degradation of the institutions under Modi are too sever. Which in turn will impact the very institution termed as "Largest democracy of the world".

 

[Afif]

Perhaps you are right, although it sticks in my throat to agree even partially.
Part of my reluctance is due to including incidents like the 2009 BDR killings, where, in spite of the random remarks of a single investigator, there has never been any evidence proving India's involvement;

Because there hasn't been an actual investigation so far. I am not saying, India is involved. But Hassina definitely is. That is almost beyond doubt now. Shaheed general Shakil's son came out few days ago amogn with many victim's family,and disclosed what a BAL leader said to him in phone call.

Subsequently, the Ministry role was cut back to normal levels, and they were not players. There was nobody to rig the 2013 elections.

How would India rig an election in BD? That is not realistic, it was all Hassina and her dogs. But she had full backing from India.