Chinese SAC - FC-31/J-35 5th Gen Stealth Aircraft

[lightning f57]

About the J-35 foreign trade version:

The foreign trade version of the J-35 is confirmed to use the WS-21 engine. In the future, the engine will be used exclusively for export, and it will not only be used in the foreign trade version of the J-35, but also in other export fighters. At the same time, the engine may be exported both technically and as a separate engine.

Do we know the difference between WS-21 and WS-19?

Can WS-21 supercruise?

 

[FHN]

Do we know the difference between WS-21 and WS-19?

Can WS-21 supercruise?

The WS-21 provides 93.2 kN (21,000 lbf; 9,500 kgf) of thrust while ws-19 provides 116 kN (25,000–26,000 lbf; 11,200–11,800 kgf) of thrust with a higher thrust-to-weight ratio. Ws-19 also incorporates the same technology as found on the ws-15.

 

[Michael]

Do we know the difference between WS-21 and WS-19?

Can WS-21 supercruise?

No comment on the specific details of the parameters of these two engines!
What is publicly available is that the difference between the two engines is currently very small.

The WS-21 provides 93.2 kN (21,000 lbf; 9,500 kgf) of thrust while ws-21 provides 116 kN (25,000–26,000 lbf; 11,200–11,800 kgf) of thrust with a higher thrust-to-weight ratio. Ws-19 also incorporates the same technology as found on the ws-15.

The figures are inaccurate. There are some discrepancies between the real data and the data circulating on the Internet, but the discrepancies are not great.

 

[FHN]

No comment on the specific details of the parameters of these two engines!
What is publicly available is that the difference between the two engines is currently very small.The actual executive chief designer of the WS-21 is also the chief designer of the WS-19.
AECC has had a major personnel reshuffle recently. The WS-19 chief designer is said to have been transferred out of his post to the AECC headquarters. The period around the Chinese New Year every year is a time of intensive personnel changes.
The future movement of these two engines will depend on the announcements made after the personnel changes are over before some preliminary judgments can be made.


I checked with an in-house engineer. The figures are inaccurate. There are some discrepancies between the real data and the data circulating on the Internet, but the discrepancies are not great.

The WS-21 to the WS-13E is basically the WS-10C to the WS-10B. What do you make of this comparison?ws-13E has a maximum thrust of 92.16 kN (20,720 lbf) with afterburner

 

[Michael]

The WS-21 to the WS-13E is basically the WS-10C to the WS-10B. What do you make of this comparison?ws-13E has a maximum thrust of 92.16 kN (20,720 lbf) with afterburner

I'm not an expert on this.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

via Weibo@央视军事 (Original link)

第三届“航空航天医学高峰论坛”，多位院士参会展开交流。《战斗机发展的思考》是中国工程院院士孙聪在论坛上演讲的题目。他说：“我们的研制周期现在都太长了，这就是给我们飞机研发领域提出一个新挑战，能不能像造手机一样造飞机，是我们未来的一个梦想！”

Sun Cong, Academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering: “Our development cycle is now all too long, this is to put forward a new challenge to our aircraft research and development field, can we build aircraft like building cell phones, is a dream for our future!”

=========================================
The J-35 series will be produced on a very large scale. The current production system is being planned and built to a very large capacity. It is expected that it will have a total capacity of over 1000+.


About the J-35 foreign trade version:

The foreign trade version of the J-35 is confirmed to use the WS-21 engine. In the future, the engine will be used exclusively for export, and it will not only be used in the foreign trade version of the J-35, but also in other export fighters. At the same time, the engine may be exported both technically and as a separate engine.

Since the vast majority of countries around the globe do not have independent modern military information systems. And, these countries do not have sufficient funds to procure and maintain these systems. This will pose a huge problem for the export of the J-35.

China currently has no intention of military hegemony. It is impossible for China to build military alliances with these countries. Therefore, China will not open its modern military information network to other countries. So how about a solution for the information support that the 5th Gen fighter must rely on? I think there are these solutions:

1, J-35 castrated version. This is the easiest way. Certain countries don't need advanced information network support platforms either.

2, Lease China's well-developed civilian systems.
China's civilian remote sensing satellites, imaging satellites, communication satellites, etc. are more advanced than the military satellite systems of many countries around the world. They are fully available for use by other countries' militaries. The only problem is that China's huge civilian satellite system belongs to different governmental organizations, scientific research institutions, enterprises, schools and so on. They need a unified organization to coordinate and manage them. Separate frequency bands and channels are divided among these satellite systems, which are transmitted and managed with military-grade encryption, and then leased to foreign militaries for their use.

In following text of your:

In the future, the engine will be used exclusively for export, and it will not only be used in the foreign trade version of the J-35, but also in other export fighters. At the same time, the engine may be exported both technically and as a separate engine.

Can you please eloborate this following line with more details and clarity:

At the same time, the engine may be exported both technically and as a separate engine.

 

[Michael]

Can you please eloborate this following line with more details and clarity:
At the same time, the engine may be exported both technically and as a separate engine.

On the 5th Gen fighter, there is a technology called “Integrated Flight-Propulsion Control (IFPC)”. In Chinese, it's called “飞发一体化控制”, or "飞火推一体化".
Simply put, the fighter jet's flight control computer has complete control over all of the aircraft's subsystems. As for the detailed technical details, you can check the relevant English materials. I can only find some Chinese information, it is not convenient to provide English information.------IFPC technology is also one of the core reasons why the KAAN and KF-21 are not called 5th Gen fighters.

But, it brings a very troublesome problem to China's fighter export ------ technology leakage risk.

To solve this problem, China uses different engines for exporting fighters. the WS-21 is designed to serve the foreign trade market and the WS-19 is designed for PLA's own use.

If a foreign buyer wants to buy the WS-21 engine separately, or wants to produce the WS-21 engine in their country, it won't have any effect on the PLA.

Can you understand now?

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

On the 5th Gen fighter, there is a technology called “Integrated Flight-Propulsion Control (IFPC)”. In Chinese, it's called “飞发一体化控制”, or "飞火推一体化".
Simply put, the fighter jet's flight control computer has complete control over all of the aircraft's subsystems. As for the detailed technical details, you can check the relevant English materials. I can only find some Chinese information, it is not convenient to provide English information.------IFPC technology is also one of the core reasons why the KAAN and KF-21 are not called 5th Gen fighters.

But, it brings a very troublesome problem to China's fighter export ------ technology leakage risk.

To solve this problem, China uses different engines for exporting fighters. the WS-21 is designed to serve the foreign trade market and the WS-19 is designed for PLA's own use.

If a foreign buyer wants to buy the WS-21 engine separately, or wants to produce the WS-21 engine in their country, it won't have any effect on the PLA.

Can you understand now?

Thanks for your reply and for providing us with the opportunity to learn.

If I've grasped your meaning correctly and placed it within the proper context can we say:

1- The primary distinction between WS19 and WS21 lies not in the thrust level or TWR itself, but rather in the enhanced control and management of the engine and its systems. While a higher thrust level and TWR may be an outcome of these advancements along with some other advancement.

2- China can also export or license the production of WS21 to a foreign buyer if someone is willing and able to buy it.

 

[Michael]

Thanks for your reply and for providing us with the opportunity to learn.

If I've grasped your meaning correctly and placed it within the proper context can we say:

1- The primary distinction between WS19 and WS21 lies not in the thrust level or TWR itself, but rather in the enhanced control and management of the engine and its systems. While a higher thrust level and TWR may be an outcome of these advancements along with some other advancement.

2- China can also export or license the production of WS21 to a foreign buyer if someone is willing and able to buy it.

The general meaning of your understanding is correct.

Starting with the 3rd Gen fighters, fighters began using flight control systems. By the 4th Gen fighters, fighters began using digital control technology for their engines. However, the flight control system and the engine control system are two separate systems from each other. ------ Early fire control systems (including radar systems) were also relatively independent systems.

The engine control system was developed independently by the engine manufacturer. It was connected to the flight control system through an open data interface. However, the flight control system does not have direct access to the data from the sensors inside the engine, much less direct control of a component inside the engine. The engine control system is at this point somewhat like an independent contractor in a business partnership.

The 5th Gen fighter puts higher demands on aircraft performance. At the same time, the more advanced avionics system puts a higher demand on the dynamic management of electrical energy. the F-22 was the first to propose and use IFPC technology. China's J-20/J-35 also recognizes and uses this technology. Engine Control Systems is, at this point, more of a direct division of the company. The company executives can give orders through the department managers, or they can skip the department managers and directly direct the employees below them. When the company executives are strong enough, they can also manage the employees directly without the department managers.

IFPC technology. It means that the flight control software must have complete access to all control of the engine. The engine manufacturer must completely open the engine control system to the flight control software manufacturer. This is also a core secret of the engine manufacturer. It cannot be disclosed to foreign customers. Therefore, KAAN and KF-21 cannot use IFPC technology.

The export version, the J-35, will use some measures to prevent leaks.

From what I have learned so far, the thrust difference between WS-19 and WS-21 is very small. There is absolutely no need for China to develop two medium thrust engines with similar performance at the same time if it is just for PLA's own use.

As for whether the WS-21 is technically exportable, it depends entirely on the needs of foreign customers. It is technically allowed to be exported.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

The general meaning of your understanding is correct.

Starting with the 3rd Gen fighters, fighters began using flight control systems. By the 4th Gen fighters, fighters began using digital control technology for their engines. However, the flight control system and the engine control system are two separate systems from each other. ------ Early fire control systems (including radar systems) were also relatively independent systems.

The engine control system was developed independently by the engine manufacturer. It was connected to the flight control system through an open data interface. However, the flight control system does not have direct access to the data from the sensors inside the engine, much less direct control of a component inside the engine. The engine control system is at this point somewhat like an independent contractor in a business partnership.

The 5th Gen fighter puts higher demands on aircraft performance. At the same time, the more advanced avionics system puts a higher demand on the dynamic management of electrical energy. the F-22 was the first to propose and use IFPC technology. China's J-20/J-35 also recognizes and uses this technology.

IFPC technology. It means that the flight control software must have complete access to all control of the engine. The engine manufacturer must completely open the engine control system to the flight control software manufacturer. This is also a core secret of the engine manufacturer. It cannot be disclosed to foreign customers. Therefore, KAAN and KF-21 cannot use IFPC technology.

The export version, the J-35, will use some measures to prevent leaks.

From what I have learned so far, the thrust difference between WS-19 and WS-21 is very small. There is absolutely no need for China to develop two medium thrust engines with similar performance at the same time if it is just for PLA's own use.

As for whether the WS-21 is technically exportable, it depends entirely on the needs of foreign customers. It is technically allowed to be exported.

Thanks Dear

 

[Deino]

J-35/A has allegedly entered serial production ... (surely for Pakistan first & alone )

 

[Michael]

J-35/A has allegedly entered serial production ... (surely for Pakistan first & alone )

From the information I have received, mass production of the J-35A has not begun. It is still the 601 Institute's pilot plant that is producing the J-35 series, and the production line at the 112 plant is not yet ready.

But. I got an exciting news.

Sometime this fall (basically confirmed to be September 3, 2025), the J-35A will be coated with an official PLAAF number and formally appear in the public eye flying in fleet formation. The agencies involved are currently ramping up production of these J-35A.

So, you'll probably see a lot of test flight photos of the J-35A in the future. But they are not for Pakistan.

 

[Deino]

From the information I have received, mass production of the J-35A has not begun. It is still the 601 Institute's pilot plant that is producing the J-35 series, and the production line at the 112 plant is not yet ready.
...

So, the naval J-35 is in production only at the moment?

And what's so special about that date September 3, 2025??

 

[Michael]

So, the naval J-35 is in production only at the moment?

The Navy version of the J-35 is currently being flight-tested with the WS-21 engine. a Navy version of the WS-19 engine is not yet ready. The basic certainty is that the Navy will follow with the WS-19 engine.
However, it is uncertain whether the Navy will procure a small production Navy version of the J-35 (WS-21). Or, wait for next year to procure the J-35 (WS-19) Navy version directly?
The official mass production of either the Navy version or the Air Force version is at Plant 112. That plant is not ready at this time.

And what's so special about that date September 3, 2025??

The message I received was. China will hold a military parade this year. the J-35A is confirmed to participate in this parade.

September 3, 2025 is the only date available for the parade.
The 80th anniversary of the victory in the war of resistance.

This is a documentary for the 70th anniversary.

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[Deino]

The Navy version of the J-35 is currently being flight-tested with the WS-21 engine. a Navy version of the WS-19 engine is not yet ready. The basic certainty is that the Navy will follow with the WS-19 engine.
However, it is uncertain whether the Navy will procure a small production Navy version of the J-35 (WS-21). Or, wait for next year to procure the J-35 (WS-19) Navy version directly?
The official mass production of either the Navy version or the Air Force version is at Plant 112. That plant is not ready at this time.


The message I received was. China will hold a military parade this year. the J-35A is confirmed to participate in this parade.

September 3, 2025 is the only date available for the parade.
The 80th anniversary of the victory in the war of resistance.

This is a documentary for the 70th anniversary.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Pardon, but which variant is then in production, when the PLAN J-35 isn't ready yet and per your previous post, the PLAAF J-35A "has not begun" yet? ... so the news is wrong?