Egyptian Armed Forces

[GoMig-21]

That's an empty statement.No such encounter occured b/w Indian Rafale and Pak J-10s.
Only combat record of J-10C in Pak Service was during strikes on Iran.
And Iranians posed no credible threat to J-10.

That's why I asked. I follow combat aircraft events like a crack whore chasing the drug and I haven't read or heard a single encounter that would've even come close enough to suggest anything remotely close to the J-10C having any advantage to the Rafale, let alone "effectively suppress" it. The absurdity of that is borderline horrific if you really think about it. I mean who's the audience to such kerrfulfury? Do we suddenly have the IQ of a dung beetle or something? It's ridiculous the use of misinformation out there in this powerful world of instantaneous passing of information.

And I'm sorry to anyone out there who might get offended by what I'm about to say, but there is a solid reason why the J-10C is priced considerably lower than the Rafale. While labor costs in China are most likely extensively less than what French aeronautical engineers and assembly workers make, the end product is not in equal standing.

I suspect we might see an example of the two meeting up at some point in the not-so-distant future, giving the constantly sensitive & volatile situation between India & Pakistan and vice-versa, so we'll end up having some more information. But from everything we know as of now, that Chinese article is quite baseless and frankly a shamefully disingenuous piece of journalism.

On the other hand, the J-10C appears to be one of the most economically sound platforms for the level of power you get from it and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the EAF stack up on that fabulous fighter jet and I even hope that comes to fruition, but let's pump the brakes a little bit on this slight delusion of grandeur lol.

 

[GoMig-21]

There was a whole thread on this article about this 9-0 victory over the Typhoon I think in the Air Warfare section, and it was pretty much put to rest as in it's just a little bit off the mark lol. It was a simulation after all, or something like that. Nothing that really indicates anything close to a real testing of the two platforms to one another.

 

[MS Sandhu]

That's why I asked. I follow combat aircraft events like a crack whore chasing the drug and I haven't read or heard a single encounter that would've even come close enough to suggest anything remotely close to the J-10C having any advantage to the Rafale, let alone "effectively suppress" it. The absurdity of that is borderline horrific if you really think about it. I mean who's the audience to such kerrfulfury? Do we suddenly have the IQ of a dung beetle or something? It's ridiculous the use of misinformation out there in this powerful world of instantaneous passing of information.

And I'm sorry to anyone out there who might get offended by what I'm about to say, but there is a solid reason why the J-10C is priced considerably lower than the Rafale. While labor costs in China are most likely extensively less than what French aeronautical engineers and assembly workers make, the end product is not in equal standing.

I suspect we might see an example of the two meeting up at some point in the not-so-distant future, giving the constantly sensitive & volatile situation between India & Pakistan and vice-versa, so we'll end up having some more information. But from everything we know as of now, that Chinese article is quite baseless and frankly a shamefully disingenuous piece of journalism.

On the other hand, the J-10C appears to be one of the most economically sound platforms for the level of power you get from it and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the EAF stack up on that fabulous fighter jet and I even hope that comes to fruition, but let's pump the brakes a little bit on this slight delusion of grandeur lol.

Discussion of J-10C vs Rafale on one to one basis is useless anyway.Since Both PAF & IAF will come up with strike package.
That will be a well networked system of Systems consisting of ground strike fighters,Air Superiority fighters, Airborne Early Warning Aircrafts,EW Aircrafts, & ground based ECM/EW & defence systems all networked together.
So if J-10C lags behind Rafale in some aspects,that will not matter much b/c J-10 will not be alone.

Even in 27 Feb 2019 ,Mig-21 was shot well in Pak territory and came almost 35-40km close to F-16s.
Theoretically that should have never happened.It should have been shot down from at least 70km+ distance b/c F-16 was equiped with 100km+ ranged AIM-120s.
But this happened b/c theoretics & Practics vary in actual combat.

 

[GoMig-21]

Discussion of J-10C vs Rafale on one to one basis is useless anyway.Since Both PAF & IAF will come up with strike package.
That will be a well networked system of Systems consisting of ground strike fighters,Air Superiority fighters, Airborne Early Warning Aircrafts,EW Aircrafts, & ground based ECM/EW & defence systems all networked together.
So if J-10C lags behind Rafale in some aspects,that will not matter much b/c J-10 will not be alone.

Indeed. That's quite the accurate assessment.

Even in 27 Feb 2019 ,Mig-21 was shot well in Pak territory and came almost 35-40km close to F-16s.
Theoretically that should have never happened.It should have been shot down from at least 70km+ distance b/c F-16 was equiped with 100km+ ranged AIM-120s.
But this happened b/c theoretics & Practics vary in actual combat.

Yes, exactly! Especially the last line there. If you've been following this thread at least for the last 10 pages or so, this is exactly the point I was making regarding having the AIM-120 vs not having it, but still having other assets to compliment & make up and allow changes & variations in battle tactics that alter the preconceived notion that BVR is do or die. At the same time, that's not taking anything away from the importance or advantage of possessing advanced BVR weapons, but just as you said, despite having that advantage, there are many other factors that affect that advantage. Well said I couldn't agree more.

And just to reiterate, in no way am I undermining the potency of the J-10C whatsoever. As a matter of fact, it could actually be a better choice in certain dynamics and for certain air forces. For example, if you were to ask me if I would take 50 Rafales and its full complement of weapons or 75 J-10Cs with its full complement of weapons, I would take the 75 J-10Cs simply because despite it's quality & capabilities being comparable to those of the Rafale, its affordability gives me the numerical advantage which gives me that greater strength in numbers.

 

[MLK]

Maybe OT but if I may ask, what do you guys consider to be Egypts best/strongest branch is it the Army, Navy or Air Force?

I'm very ignorant on this topic but I'd love to hear your opinions.

 

[GoMig-21]

Maybe OT but if I may ask, what do you guys consider to be Egypts best/strongest branch is it the Army, Navy or Air Force?

There's actually one more branch, the Air Defense (EAD) which is huge, and some might even consider it to be the Egyptian military's strongest asset since its performance has been exemplary since the military instilled it as a major and also independent branch of the Egyptian military after the disaster of 1967 and knowing they were going to be going to war for a long time, starting with the ensuing war of attrition.

Following the 1967 war, Egypt took the decision to reorganize and develop its armed forces and included those decisions on Presidential Decree No. 199 issued on 1 February 1968, establishment of the Egyptian Air Defense Forces as a separate branch, standing alone, avoiding the previous weapons and units scattered among departments. With artillery and rocket troops were tracing artillery management units and radar warning and operations centers used to belong to the air force and the control points were given follow the Border guard.

Great thread on how extensive it is and how it's tied in with the other branches as it operates as part of the entire defensive network HERE.

But to answer your question, I don't think there really is one that's stronger than the other like in other countries. I think with Egypt, the weight & responsibility of each branch is very heavy to perform at the highest level because the others depend on it, with maybe the exception of the Navy to a certain degree. For example, the Air Defense has to protect all the others, from the air force's airports to the armored columns to radar installations to naval & submarine ports even certain critical civilian infrastructures.

At the same time, it relies on the air force to intercept unwanted violating intrusions and to conduct unknown presence of ground, ocean or aerial targets that haven't violated air or waters or land but are approaching them.

The Air Force has a lot of duties, mainly patrolling & ready at all times for interceptions and war. It's always conduction patrols & recon missions all over the EGY territory from the northern Mediterranean Sea coast to the western Libyan border all the way south to the Sudanese border and up the entire easter Red Sea coast to Sinai and especially the Suez Canal. If you're even at any spot along the canal your chances of seeing jets fly by are pretty high.

The EAF also works hand in hand with the EADS and quite extensively as a matter of fact since the former also relies heavily on the latter with the RICS-4/5 network that they operate under. This is the Egyptian Military's domestic version of network-centric environment which they've taken very seriously since the mid-70s but have really perfected it in the last 15 years or so, especially once the Rafale was inducted into the EAF.

The navy obviously is tasked with huge responsibilities being it has the entire Mediterranean Sea coast and all its offshore gas assets and major ports such as Port Said, Alexandria, Marsa Matruh, Port Tawfik, Bernice, Hurghada, Taba, Sharm El Sheikh, El Arish, and of course, the Suez Canal itself and all offshore oil rigs in the Red Sea as well as transport shipping in and out of the Gulf of Suez. So it has its hands full for sure and is composed of a huge fleet of ships including the two Mistral LHDs & 8 submarines 4 of which are older but still work well and more to come soon. The navy also has a lot of its own defensive capabilities, but its ports rely on both, the EADS' protections as well as the EAF's. There's also the Naval Paratroopers division and the Egyptian version of SEALs (frogmen division) and other naval special forces.

The army with all the armor from the huge inventory of tanks, APCs, IFVs, artillery of all sorts also relies on mobile SAM units from the EADS to be attached to its divisions. That adds to the weight & responsibility of the EADS additionally. The army's armored units bear the responsibility of being ready at a moment's notice for war. Other than that, there really isn't much else required of them, as in constant duties during peace time such as those of the EADS (explained), the Air Force or the Navy but then there is the huge army which comprises of many large outfits such as the Sa'aka (Thunderbolts) the Rapid Deployment Forces, the huge membership of regular infantry and of course, a large makeup of special forces units that are actually interchangeable with some of the other branches such as the armor & navy. All of these have also been engaged in many of the counter-terrorism missions in the past 10 years.

So, as you can see, they all have their own very extensive responsibilities and are quite interconnected in many ways so they all essentially depend on one another to some degree which forces each's strength to be as strong as it possibly can to make that ever so important network-centric environment work well. Hard to label one as the strongest than the others but based on all the above info and if I was forced to pick one, I would say it's the Air Defense branch. Its responsibility for most of the others as well as civilian infrastructure is ginormous along with its historical experience, I would have to say makes it the strongest of the lot.

BTW, there's also Egypt's underground ballistic missile program that not many people know about including the CIA which has tried time & time again to spy & infiltrate but to no avail. I'm not sure where they would categorize that force, with the Air Defense? Or with the Army? Something interesting to think about.

 

[MLK]

There's actually one more branch, the Air Defense (EAD) which is huge, and some might even consider it to be the Egyptian military's strongest asset since its performance has been exemplary since the military instilled it as a major and also independent branch of the Egyptian military after the disaster of 1967 and knowing they were going to be going to war for a long time, starting with the ensuing war of attrition.

Following the 1967 war, Egypt took the decision to reorganize and develop its armed forces and included those decisions on Presidential Decree No. 199 issued on 1 February 1968, establishment of the Egyptian Air Defense Forces as a separate branch, standing alone, avoiding the previous weapons and units scattered among departments. With artillery and rocket troops were tracing artillery management units and radar warning and operations centers used to belong to the air force and the control points were given follow the Border guard.

Great thread on how extensive it is and how it's tied in with the other branches as it operates as part of the entire defensive network HERE.

But to answer your question, I don't think there really is one that's stronger than the other like in other countries. I think with Egypt, the weight & responsibility of each branch is very heavy to perform at the highest level because the others depend on it, with maybe the exception of the Navy to a certain degree. For example, the Air Defense has to protect all the others, from the air force's airports to the armored columns to radar installations to naval & submarine ports even certain critical civilian infrastructures.

At the same time, it relies on the air force to intercept unwanted violating intrusions and to conduct unknown presence of ground, ocean or aerial targets that haven't violated air or waters or land but are approaching them.

The Air Force has a lot of duties, mainly patrolling & ready at all times for interceptions and war. It's always conduction patrols & recon missions all over the EGY territory from the northern Mediterranean Sea coast to the western Libyan border all the way south to the Sudanese border and up the entire easter Red Sea coast to Sinai and especially the Suez Canal. If you're even at any spot along the canal your chances of seeing jets fly by are pretty high.

The EAF also works hand in hand with the EADS and quite extensively as a matter of fact since the former also relies heavily on the latter with the RICS-4/5 network that they operate under. This is the Egyptian Military's domestic version of network-centric environment which they've taken very seriously since the mid-70s but have really perfected it in the last 15 years or so, especially once the Rafale was inducted into the EAF.

The navy obviously is tasked with huge responsibilities being it has the entire Mediterranean Sea coast and all its offshore gas assets and major ports such as Port Said, Alexandria, Marsa Matruh, Port Tawfik, Bernice, Hurghada, Taba, Sharm El Sheikh, El Arish, and of course, the Suez Canal itself and all offshore oil rigs in the Red Sea as well as transport shipping in and out of the Gulf of Suez. So it has its hands full for sure and is composed of a huge fleet of ships including the two Mistral LHDs & 8 submarines 4 of which are older but still work well and more to come soon. The navy also has a lot of its own defensive capabilities, but its ports rely on both, the EADS' protections as well as the EAF's. There's also the Naval Paratroopers division and the Egyptian version of SEALs (frogmen division) and other naval special forces.

The army with all the armor from the huge inventory of tanks, APCs, IFVs, artillery of all sorts also relies on mobile SAM units from the EADS to be attached to its divisions. That adds to the weight & responsibility of the EADS additionally. The army's armored units bear the responsibility of being ready at a moment's notice for war. Other than that, there really isn't much else required of them, as in constant duties during peace time such as those of the EADS (explained), the Air Force or the Navy but then there is the huge army which comprises of many large outfits such as the Sa'aka (Thunderbolts) the Rapid Deployment Forces, the huge membership of regular infantry and of course, a large makeup of special forces units that are actually interchangeable with some of the other branches such as the armor & navy. All of these have also been engaged in many of the counter-terrorism missions in the past 10 years.

So, as you can see, they all have their own very extensive responsibilities and are quite interconnected in many ways so they all essentially depend on one another to some degree which forces each's strength to be as strong as it possibly can to make that ever so important network-centric environment work well. Hard to label one as the strongest than the others but based on all the above info and if I was forced to pick one, I would say it's the Air Defense branch. Its responsibility for most of the others as well as civilian infrastructure is ginormous along with its historical experience, I would have to say makes it the strongest of the lot.

BTW, there's also Egypt's underground ballistic missile program that not many people know about including the CIA which has tried time & time again to spy & infiltrate but to no avail. I'm not sure where they would categorize that force, with the Air Defense? Or with the Army? Something interesting to think about.

Amazing insight, I had no Idea Egypt had such a great Air defence.
I guess it's safe to claim that Egyptian military is the strongest, most complete millitary in Africa or am I wrong, maybe SA close?

With that in mind, how is your relationship with Sudan and is Egypt considering stepping in and rescuing the Sudanese Army?

 

[Ghostkiller]

Amazing insight, I had no Idea Egypt had such a great Air defence.
I guess it's safe to claim that Egyptian military is the strongest, most complete millitary in Africa or am I wrong, maybe SA close?

With that in mind, how is your relationship with Sudan and is Egypt considering stepping in and rescuing the Sudanese Army?

Industry wise, SA is the best in Africa. Military wise, there is ofc Egypt, SA, Algeria and now Morocco is starting to get close.
I swear to God, I was gonna ask about the situation in Sudan and what Egypt can do.

From what we are seeing, Egypt isn't meddling in the conflict. I wish we aided the Sudanese Army during the first stages of the war so SA can defeat the RSF but we didn't. RSF is dangerous to Egypt but they are supported by the UAE Wagner etc... (for gold and other resources) and getting allied with Abiy Ahmed. I am not saying that SA is good but they are lesser worst than RSF.

 

[GoMig-21]

Amazing insight, I had no Idea Egypt had such a great Air defence.
I guess it's safe to claim that Egyptian military is the strongest, most complete millitary in Africa or am I wrong, maybe SA close?

I would say Algeria is a very close 2nd maybe even surpasses in certain elements. It's always difficult to judge superiority of relatively matching peers since there are so many factors that come into play when overall strengths are close.

But as far as the air defense is concerned, it takes the security of Egypt very seriously and to another level because of obvious reasons. Since 1956 and especially 1967 and after, the zionist have had their freedom violating Egyptian airspace at will and did it regularly until the start of the War of Attrition in 1967/68. This even went on into the period when they recieved their initial batch of F-15s and they had all that vaunted success against Syrian MiG-21s & MiG-23s wow what a challenge that must've been including having E-2C Hawkeyes for AWACs hell the Syrian had no chance lol. But the zionist were so high on their lopsided success they started purposely testing Egyptian air defenses by performing sneak intrusions into Egypt at Mach 2 & above and would make these ridiculous mad dashes right over the Delta and out west over Libya over the Mediterranean and back to the occupied territories. Well, that was ridiculous of course and the EADs started really buttoning down on closing the airspace to those ridiculous intrusions and it worked.

Then it became an obsessive compulsion and they've put billions and billions of $$$ in its modernization the EADS since Sisi took over in 2013. They've built impressive HQs including underground ones in unknown areas that monitor every grain of sand in not only Egypt, but all points 1,100 km in diameter from its main surveillance radar that's located in an area called Ras Ghareb near the Red Sea and another area further north of Cairo. These are just some examples of the country's surveillance radars and defense network.

The new ministry of defense is modeled off the Pentagon except it's called the Octagon lol. And the crazy part about it is the size and how big the entire compound (if you can even call it that) is.

With that in mind, how is your relationship with Sudan and is Egypt considering stepping in and rescuing the Sudanese Army?

It a shame what's going on there, it's worse than what happened in Somalia back in the early 90s when civil war killed close to 400,000 people. In Sudan the massacre is at a whole other scale, and I highly doubt we're getting involved on any significant military level. Everything is diplomatic with Sisi. Despite what people think because of his military career and supposed dictator-like aura and all that crap, he's probably the most diplomatically oriented president Egypt has ever had. He always looks for diplomacy first and trying every single possible route to peacefully solve conflicts before making any irrational decisions which I personally think is a great attribute of his and one that he doesn't get enough credit for.

As a result, despite Egypt's support of the Sudanese National Army, he was still willing to accept a peaceful relationship between a divided Sudan to which the UAE (a huge ally & brotherly country to Egypt) is supporting the other side and the fighting has caused a devastating genocide. Egypt's interest lie more in having an alliance with either a unified Sudan or a divided one because diplomacy is critical for Egypt since Sudan needs to be engaged and allied with Egypt to curtail the Renaissance dam in Ethiopia since the water affects us both, not just Egypt. It's a selfish reason but it's a critically important one.