Gaza-Israel Conflict | 2023-2024

RescueRanger said:
So we can all agree Israel has no realistic endgame for this project of theirs.
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Endgame or Endgame the world will accept without needing to attack Israel for its criminality and abuse?
 
ae
Meengla said:
An Israeli blog about a possible path to end this conflict and a peace process (if you can read this without crashing your browser!!). But even these little concessions are bashed upon in the Comments to the blog.
Some points are: No permanent expulsions of Gazans. Hamas can't be defeated because it is an ideology with deep roots in Gaza. So a 'demilitarized' Gaza first under UN Peace Keepers with NATO/Arab forces. Then a 'path' to a future Palestinian 'demilitarized' State based on Olmert's 2009 initiative but that conversation should also include Saudi 'normalization' with Israel. Hamas senior leadership in Gaza allowed safe passage out.

Reading the blog, I get an impression that Israel can't totally subjugate Gaza and so is willing to find some common ground for peace and I think that's because of the cost of the war to Israel, the growing rift with the Biden administration, and the displacements of Israelis in the north/south (along with significant exodus of Israelis to other countries).

Anyway, the blog sounds like that of a fatigued, if not a defeated, mind. Where are the Israeli apologists on this thread (and in the old PDF) which thought the Gazans attack on 7 October was futile??

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From your comments it seems atleast some Israeli's are thinking about the future rather than this senseless and pointless barbaric bombing and killings. Unfortuantely they still miss the most obvious solution, which is a viable Palestinian state based on 67 borders. Even Hamas accepted this in 2017.

If Israel did accept the 1967 borders it will IMO achieve total peace with Palestinians and the muslim world.

To overcome this exagerared security concern, the Palestinians could agree for 10-15 years to completely disarm for confidence building measures. A security force (not from the useless UN) could be established to protect the Palestinians from any Israeli aggression from friendly but powerful countries such as Russia, China, maybe some Arab states. The Europeans and Americans could have a monitoring team to ensure the peace is being enforced and neither sides are trying to cause trouble.

To me the solution is simple but polticians make it very difficult to impossible.
 
Falcon29 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1737862318023757913
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It's not just Piers Morgan but many others would distance themselves more and more from Israel. I had said similar stuff about that in the old PDF: When Israel will start to appear 'losing' on the battleground of Gaza or the global opinion would turn very much against Israel, then some fence sitters would NOT feel too bad aligning with the Palestinians--and they are doing it more and more. Look at Col. Macgregor, as just one example: When this conflict started after October 7, he was all gung-ho against Palestinians and repeatedly claimed his love for Israel. But lately, he is appearing 'American First', as even he sniffs the change of public opinion winds and Israel's dwindling fortunes. But such people are COWARDS and opportunists and I don't respect their opinion much except when it comes to some tactical battleground knowledge. In contrast, those of us who held on to our guns from day one of this conflict--and the old PDF would show you who they were--now hold our head high--we stood on the side of justice and humanity and I believe we will be vindicated in just a few years even if this particular conflict ends in a total Gaza loss.

You will see this.. the more this conflict drags on, the more Israel is going to lose and the more the Israel apologists will change their tunes. And if this becomes a regional war then not only Israel will lose but may not even exist as a nation and there will American exodus from the Middle East.
 
lightning f57 said:
ae

From your comments it seems atleast some Israeli's are thinking about the future rather than this senseless and pointless barbaric bombing and killings. Unfortuantely they still miss the most obvious solution, which is a viable Palestinian state based on 67 borders. Even Hamas accepted this in 2017.

If Israel did accept the 1967 borders it will IMO achieve total peace with Palestinians and the muslim world.

To overcome this exagerared security concern, the Palestinians could agree for 10-15 years to completely disarm for confidence building measures. A security force (not from the useless UN) could be established to protect the Palestinians from any Israeli aggression from friendly but powerful countries such as Russia, China, maybe some Arab states. The Europeans and Americans could have a monitoring team to ensure the peace is being enforced and neither sides are trying to cause trouble.

To me the solution is simple but polticians make it very difficult to impossible.
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Very sensible, pragmatic post and well worth pondering!

The biggest problem is: Israelis truly are determined to have a largely, if not exclusively, Jewish-majority state at least between the Jordan River and the Med. Sea (including the West Bank and Gaza). Some apparently educated Israeli blogger I read yesterday even saying things like 'Grab Lebanon up to the Litani River to help Israel's water table' ... 'Israel is about the size of Taiwan and so can have 25 million Jews to make a viable military and industrial' base'.

These thoughts must be in significant part of the Israeli society--Netanyahu is not alone--he has been the longest serving Israeli PM for a reason!

To sum up: Israel, in its current form, is truly a colonial, racist, expansionist enterprise looking for a Lebensraum with only possible tolerance of the Untermensch. Once we truly understand that then all of Israel's and/or its backers' actions going back to late 19th century, including inciting at least World War II, would start to make sense. And such an ideology can only be beaten back through violence.
 
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