Gaza-Israel Conflict | 2023-2024

[Musings]

My personal view on this conflict is simple, Hamas was idiotic on the 7th of October. Their situation is sad, tragic even, but they have no chance of winning a conflict and should not have started a new one.

Agreed they were wrong.
Lets not dilute the fact - decades of abuse by the Israeli - killing innocent - creating an apartheid state - genocide hasnt helped. You cant make 7/10 as the start point of the conflict.
Since then - killing 30,000 Palestinians in unjustifiable. Innocent kids slaughtered - hospitals bombed and in fact killing those hostages they are pretending to rescue.
One day it will be proven as the day is bright - ethnic cleansing is taking place - and that is a war crime.

 

[truthseer]

Agreed they were wrong.
Lets not dilute the fact - decades of abuse by the Israeli - killing innocent - creating an apartheid state - genocide hasnt helped. You cant make 7/10 as the start point of the conflict.
Since then - killing 30,000 Palestinians in unjustifiable. Innocent kids slaughtered - hospitals bombed and in fact killing those hostages they are pretending to rescue.
One day it will be proven as the day is bright - ethnic cleansing is taking place - and that is a war crime.

Agreed, however, before 7th October, 30000 dead Palestinians was a matter of years, not weeks. In the end, we all have to adapt to reality, which I feel many Muslim countries now are slow to facing up to. We are not strong enough currently to take on the world, it is time to develop defensively now rather than hoping for such attacks, which in the end, only bring more pain.

 

[VCheng]

Agreed they were wrong.
Lets not dilute the fact - decades of abuse by the Israeli - killing innocent - creating an apartheid state - genocide hasnt helped. You cant make 7/10 as the start point of the conflict.
Since then - killing 30,000 Palestinians in unjustifiable. Innocent kids slaughtered - hospitals bombed and in fact killing those hostages they are pretending to rescue.
One day it will be proven as the day is bright - ethnic cleansing is taking place - and that is a war crime.

Hamas did what they felt needed to be done. But then isn't Israel doing the same thing? Please note I am merely observing that without any judgement as to who is right or wrong. What is important to note is that both sides feel they have no choice but to do what they are doing, rightly or wrongly.

 

[r3alist]

Agreed, however, before 7th October, 30000 dead Palestinians was a matter of years, not weeks. In the end, we all have to adapt to reality, which I feel many Muslim countries now are slow to facing up to. We are not strong enough currently to take on the world, it is time to develop defensively now rather than hoping for such attacks, which in the end, only bring more pain.

You imply as if they will be left alone, they simultaneously are the subject of wider war machinations as well trying to develop and catch up.

Will you now tell me they inflicted war onto themselves

 

[hussain0216]

Israel is a safe space for all Jews and will remain so, regardless of threats. They do not need to vacate. As for democratic advantage, Arab Israelis are part of the IDF.

Only a handful of Bedouins are

The Arabs hate the IDF as much as any Palestinian

This is not a racial hatred of Jews like you Europeans have

The Jews for the last 75 years have inflicted brutal apartheid cruelty upon millions of the local population, they had plenty of time to free the Palestinians, to end settlements and theft, to end occupation and siege and idf brutality

They did nothing but enforce occupation and oppression


They got to go for the wellbeing of the entire region

 

[r3alist]

Hamas did what they felt needed to be done. But then isn't Israel doing the same thing? Please note I am merely observing that without any judgement as to who is right or wrong. What is important to note is that both sides feel they have no choice but to do what they are doing, rightly or wrongly.

Should anyone be neutral or judgement free about the erasure of life from gaza, openly declared and pre mediated by Israel.

Ofcourse there are value judgements to be made.

 

[truthseer]

You imply as if they will be left alone, they simultaneously are the subject of wider war machinations as well trying to develop and catch up.

Will you now tell me they inflicted war onto themselves

It is better that than what is going on now... is it not?

 

[Musings]

Hamas did what they felt needed to be done. But then isn't Israel doing the same thing? Please note I am merely observing that without any judgement as to who is right or wrong. What is important to note is that both sides feel they have no choice but to do what they are doing, rightly or wrongly.

What Hamas did was inexcusable.
With respect the atrocities, genocide and clear apartheid is inexcusable. It didnt start on 7/10.
A 2 state solution is the only way forward. Both parties didnt want and we are where we are.
Horrific acts being committed on innocent Palestinians by an occupier.

 

[VCheng]

Should anyone be neutral or judgement free about the erasure of life from gaza, openly declared and pre mediated by Israel.

Ofcourse there are value judgements to be made.

Personal judgements are everybody's right, but my statements above remain correct.

 

[VCheng]

What Hamas did was inexcusable.
With respect the atrocities, genocide and clear apartheid is inexcusable. It didnt start on 7/10.
A 2 state solution is the only way forward. Both parties didnt want and we are where we are.
Horrific acts being committed on innocent Palestinians by an occupier.

I can agree with all that, and add that this tit-for-tat, given each side's disparities, are likely to continue, until a 2 state solution is finally implemented, by choice, or by force.

 

[r3alist]

What Hamas did was inexcusable.
With respect the atrocities, genocide and clear apartheid is inexcusable. It didnt start on 7/10.
A 2 state solution is the only way forward. Both parties didnt want and we are where we are.
Horrific acts being committed on innocent Palestinians by an occupier.

A two state solution is closer to impossible now.

What Israel has understood now is that the path is clear for them to do as they please with us support and gulf Arab indirect support, note the complete change in tone, it's kind of declaring they are a super power.

It's worth listening to this interview from a former Israeli negotiator who explained these trends, the far right are here in Israel.

 

[hussain0216]

I can agree with all that, and add that this tit-for-tat, given each side's disparities, are likely to continue, until a 2 state solution is finally implemented, by choice, or by force.

The problem isn't Israel,, Israel would be forced to accept reality through regional pressure, international pressure over the years

The problem is the USA
The U.S protects Israel

It funds it's occupation and apartheid
It sends arms when Israel wants to bomb Palestinians
It gives hundreds of billions in aid over decades to ensure it survives
It provides diplomatic protection at the U.N and in the world


Israel is a colonial state a aircraft carrier

The U.S is the problem

 

[VCheng]

The problem isn't Israel,, Israel would be forced to accept reality through regional pressure, international pressure over the years

The problem is the USA
The U.S protects Israel

It funds it's occupation and apartheid
It sends arms when Israel wants to bomb Palestinians
It gives hundreds of billions in aid over decades to ensure it survives
It provides diplomatic protection at the U.N and in the world


Israel is a colonial state a aircraft carrier

The U.S is the problem

And what would the problem look like for the other side, if we are to be fair in assessing the entire situation?

 

[r3alist]

The problem isn't Israel,, Israel would be forced to accept reality through regional pressure, international pressure over the years

The problem is the USA
The U.S protects Israel

It funds it's occupation and apartheid
It sends arms when Israel wants to bomb Palestinians
It gives hundreds of billions in aid over decades to ensure it survives
It provides diplomatic protection at the U.N and in the world


Israel is a colonial state a aircraft carrier

The U.S is the problem

I suppose if Israel knew that it did not have us support then it would take a different approach to the Palestinians, being pragmatic.

But they do have support and acting accordingly.

 

[hussain0216]

And what would the problem look like for the other side, if we are to be fair in assessing the entire situation?

The other side would have a better chance at freedom and independence because the sheer pressure of reality, sanctions, risk of conflict z diplomatic pressure across the world would be too great for Israel

The United states has ensured that this conflict goes on by a one sided deluded support for a apartheid state