October 1973 Ramadan War

[Ghostkiller]

I've been meaning to watch it for quite some time but for some reason I never get around to it lol.

He was a brilliant man but his one battlefield decision almost ruined the entire war effort. And that critical decision wasn't even necessary and wasn't part of the original plan that Shazly had outlined and that was followed & executed to precision and was unbelievably successful, literally. And it's not like he wasn't a military man or strategist, he was with an extensive military background working with Nasser. But that ill-fated decision to move the elite 4th division that was in reserve in the west bank of the canal over to the east was beyond comprehensible. It didn't even have a single justification to it and the reason given about relieving pressure on the Syrians was ridiculous. I don't think he ever admitted that was a huge mistake.

And Shazly who was also blamed for making the terrible decision of moving the 21st division from the 2nd field army south to meet the 25th division from the 3rd army and close the gap prior to the battle of the Chinese Farm was also ill-fated, but at least it was strategiccally sound and important and made sense. The only problem was they didn't time the two moves in unison, or at the same time. The 21st moved south first and then much later the 25th moved north which gave the zionist enough time to throw the full brunt of their armor on each division individually. had it been coordinated properly and they both arrived at the same time, they would've easily overwhelmed the zionist attack. Or at least made them think about it and possibly not attempt it and there would've never been an incursion onto the west bank by the enemy in the first place.

Even after when it still wasn't too late to stop the advancement of Adan to the south or even Sharon into Ismailiya, Shazly begged Sadat to allow him to move a small battalion of armor and especially infantry with saggers from the 2nd Army west to deal with the low number of enemy tanks but Sadat wouldn't budge. His excuse that he didn't want to alarm the rest of the division and men into thinking there was a dangerous situation and have them lose morale was a bit over-justified. There was some element of truth to that, especially that they were all weary of the horrible defeat in 67 and he thought they would panic seeing what would look as a withdrawal, but Shazly said that wouldn't have been the case. Besides, it would've nullified the enemy's advance south and stopped them right at their bridgehead and at least gave the Egyptian forces more time to consolidate more forces to make up for Sadat's other ill-fated decision with the 4th division and its tremendous losses.

So I give him credit for sure, but I also give him negative points for really those horrible tactical decisions.

I mean technically Sadat was right about not moving the division with 2nd army because the Naksa was a trauma for all Egyptians (civilians or military), so by retreating them it will relive the trauma anchored within the soldiers's mentality. Ofc no one is perfect. It was the Golden Era for our Generals.

 

[GoMig-21]

Here are some facts about this war which are almost pushed aside from the military -- and in some considerations -- the political aspect but are equally, if not more important than the immediate aftermath of the war and it immediate results.

The notion that was officially portrayed in Israel as a "military victory" and referenced as the "Yom Kippur War" since that was part of the Egyptian plan, to carry out the war on the Jewish holiday to maximize the element of surprise. Whereas it's known to us in Egypt and the Arab world simply as the "October war of 1973" or the "Ramadan War" as it took place in the month of Ramadan in 1973 and was dubbed "Operation Badr," referring to the Prophet's glorious battle of Badr in 624 CE against the Quraysh of Makkah.

Despite the war results were unequivocally clear as the Israelis were forced to withdraw considerably into the heart of Sinai to create the buffer zone while Egyptian military gains were kept by Egypt couldn't be clearer as to who the victor was. To add to that immense success, the aftermath of the war not only resulted in their loss of the Bar Lev line and a 30km stretch of Sina along the Suez Canal, but it triggered the next series of events that caused the Israelis to gradually withdraw from the occupied territories the previously gained in 1967 and that had been under their control since. Eventually, this led to peace treaty and in 1979, the Sinai Peninsula was completely returned to Egypt.

That war had a long-lasting and profound negative impact on the Israelis that lasts until today even. It was a brutal war from their perspective while it's celebrated every year and more in Egypt. It was a rather difficult war which was followed by profound changes in Israel's domestic politics. Golda Meir, the cruel wench and really an authoritarian figure (the only woman to rule Israel), no longer resembled the image she originally portrayed, which was derived from the Jewish heritage of Edisha Mama (Jewish mother) formed among many citizens of the former Soviet Union (something I eluded to in one of my previous posts about the Soviet loyalty to its Jewish population and diaspora) while her image in Israel was associated with discriminated by her suppression of Mizrahi Jews, and the blame for corruption within the Israeli government, as well as her being the reason for the deaths of many Israelis in the decision to conduct the immediate counterattack to the initial crossing of the canal by and the ensuing annihilation of 1/3 of the Israeli air force and hundreds of tanks which were crushed by the Egyptian army tanks, infantry with RPG and especially the 9M14 Malyutka (Sagger) missiles.

On April 11, 1974, Golda Meir and her cabinet (following the Agranat Commission's findings) was forced to resign almost in shame, and Israel's "Iron Lady" left the Israeli political scene shortly thereafter. Three years later, the leader of the modern Likud party, Menachem Begin, became Israel's prime minister, and his 1977 peace agreement with Sadat ended nearly 30 years of the Jewish state's left-wing Labor Party's dominance of Israeli politics.

Another -- and rather important -- outcome of the Yom Kippur War is that many Israelis have recognized the limits of their military power. The Israeli occupation army was neither "superior" nor was it the "invincible army," nor were neighboring countries powerless, least of all Egypt. The course of the war also showed the extent to which the Israeli criminal war machine depended on foreign aid, and how the airlift which carried thousands of tons of U.S. ammunition and military equipment, saved the Israelis from certain and complete loss.

After the October War of 1973, controversy took place within the Israeli military and academic circles with voices calling for diplomatic compromises with neighboring Arab states and with the Palestinian population living on land seized lands stolen & occupied in 1967.

Much of that willingness to befriend and appease its Arab neighbors is evident with their constant push for normalization with countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE and others. In the meantime, while Egypt has enjoyed a war-free 50+ years since, Israel has been mired in wars and conflict one after the other since then not to mention the constant fighting between it and the Palestinian resistance for freedom and people.

For many ordinary Israelis who survived the battle's horrific experiences in Sinai and the Golan, the events of 1973 have remained traumatic and psychologically embedded in their minds. These are some of the many impactful results from this war that tend to go unnoticed for the most part, giving Egypt the ultimate edge in the end.

 

[GoMig-21]

Terribly wounded zionist. These types of photos from this war are rare, unlike today where cameras & camera phones are prevalent right in the middle of heavy bombing where guys are still trying to film to get the footage on social media, even at the risk of getting seriously wounded or even killed. Back then it was only embedded journalists who rarely took pics of scenes like this.

 

[The SC]

 

[GoMig-21]

One of the worst moments in Egyptian history. Absolutely brutal and changed the entire structure of the military and security apparatus.

You know I was about a mile away from that when it happened. My family and I were all crammed in our Peogeot 504 lol headed to the Red Sea for the weekend and listening to the radio just as it happened my father was beside himself, almost drove off the road. Needless to say, we made the best out of the time at the beach, but it definitely shaped the somber mood for the rest of that trip. Sad day as you never want to see anything like this, no matter what side of the fence you're on.

 

[Ghostkiller]

One of the worst moments in Egyptian history. Absolutely brutal and changed the entire structure of the military and security apparatus.

You know I was about a mile away from that when it happened. My family and I were all crammed in our Peogeot 504 lol headed to the Red Sea for the weekend and listening to the radio just as it happened my father was beside himself, almost drove off the road. Needless to say, we made the best out of the time at the beach, but it definitely shaped the somber mood for the rest of that trip. Sad day as you never want to see anything like this, no matter what side of the fence you're on.

My grandmother predicted his death in the same day, 6 October 1981. My grandmother said to me that Sadat expressed the vanity of the ruler after winning the war. He started to show up his arrogance through his clothes etc... On 6 October 1981, my grandmother and grandfather were tired so they didn't watched all the parade but before taking their nap, my grandmother said "Today something will happen". My mother continued watching then he got shot and my mother went straight to my grandparents, woke them up and said "something happened, they stop broadcasting the parade". After, the media announced the death of Sadat.

 

[The SC]

More facts..

 

[GoMig-21]

More facts..

Powerful words, baby. He was getting a lot of flack for agreeing to the ceasefire on the 19th because people didn't realize that he had already refused it 5 times prior. "Khamass marrrrraaaaatttt!" lol I never knew British ambassador woke him up at fagr on the 13th loool. And Kosygen spent 4 days trying to convince him to accept a ceasefire and he still refused. And people didn't believe him when he said I wasn't fighting the zionist, I was fighting America.

And there's another example of leaders making difficult decisions just like Sisi is doing today and taking the Egyptian people's safety and protection as the number one priority, along with preserving the armed forces from total destruction based on some impulse to fight for whatever reason. Those are the difficult decisions not good leaders make, but great ones because they are very difficult to make.

 

[The SC]

On the day of the exit from Sinai, the Israeli leaders cried, cut off their attacks, and swore that they would return to it again.

 

[lightning f57]

The fanatics in Israel still see the Sinai and parts of Egypt under their greater Israel vision. The peace treaty Egypt has it should use to strengthen and prepare itself because I do not believe this peace will last, Israel is a natural enemy for what it stands. Until it does not end its racist aparthied policies, they the extremist who lead that state will always look down on non-jews and see more land as their birth right.

 

[GoMig-21]

The fanatics in Israel still see the Sinai and parts of Egypt under their greater Israel vision. The peace treaty Egypt has it should use to strengthen and prepare itself because I do not believe this peace will last, Israel is a natural enemy for what it stands. Until it does not end its racist aparthied policies, they the extremist who lead that state will always look down on non-jews and see more land as their birth right.

This is true. I can tell you from what I know, the military is about as geared up as can possibly be for exactly that scenario.

All the zionist that work to analyze Egypt and its military unanimously agree that not only is Egypt prepared to defend the Sinai (and Egypt proper as well of course), but they even think it's planning for an eventuality of actually mounting an offensive war into occupied Palestine.

Back in the early 90s, the armed forces created a whole new corps called the Rapid Deployment Forces where their only task is to shut the canal down and transfer 7 armored & infantry divisions
into Sinai. They have an entire engineering corps that's solely relagated to logistics, setting up floating bridges and directing passage. They've also built 5 (I think) tunnels that travel under the Suez Canal so that the faster and initial units don't even have to wait to get over to the other side. Then there's all sorts of air defense mobilizations, navy and of course, air force. Every other year I believe they conduct a major excercise to practice that same exact drill. There are several spots along the 100kim of canal where there are already pontoon bridges shored up against the western bank all ready to be deployed. Plus a myriad of other things. And the zionist know all about it, of course. And I'm sure our side is also aware that they're aware so there are several decoys of all sorts of stuff here and there. They've (the zionist) been making a huge stink about it.

There's also been huge amounts of money spent of fixed ADS at vital structures because of their bad habit of preempting and targeting such places. The Aswan dam and several areas in Cairo. Rumors are those are where the Patriot systems are set up.

 

[Persian Gulf]

@GoMig-21

I think it's more appropriate to ask here: what was the overall performance of the EAF vs the IAF in the 1973 war? I understand the EAF performed poorly in terms of number of losses in dog fights and overall number of jets shot down. What were the reasons for this?

 

[GoMig-21]

@GoMig-21

I think it's more appropriate to ask here: what was the overall performance of the EAF vs the IAF in the 1973 war? I understand the EAF performed poorly in terms of number of losses in dog fights and overall number of jets shot down. What were the reasons for this?

The only way I could answer that in a satisfactory manner is through a rather long post. I'm more than happy to do it and you don't have to reciprocate in the same manner, or even read it if you don't wish to. But I'm just checking to be sure if you would be ok with a super long post. The reason is that it's not an easy & simple answer, and the only way to articulate what my opinion is of the EAF's performance, I have to cover a lot of the surrounding events that led up to the war, the media and historical mechanism and its influence and the technical details. The only way to do that is to cover it all in great detail and articulate it well so it makes sense. And supports my POV. If you're ok with that, I'll be happy to offer you my honest assessment.

 

[PakFactor]

The only way I could answer that in a satisfactory manner is through a rather long post. I'm more than happy to do it and you don't have to reciprocate in the same manner, or even read it if you don't wish to. But I'm just checking to be sure if you would be ok with a super long post. The reason is that it's not an easy & simple answer, and the only way to articulate what my opinion is of the EAF's performance, I have to cover a lot of the surrounding events that led up to the war, the media and historical mechanism and its influence and the technical details. The only way to do that is to cover it all in great detail and articulate it well so it makes sense. And supports my POV. If you're ok with that, I'll be happy to offer you my honest assessment.

Write it out and let the readers assess; some might be biased and some not, but information at least will stay and be learned. Also, considering that you served in the Egyptian military, you'll know better than other observers.

 

[GoMig-21]

Write it out and let the readers assess; some might be biased and some not, but information at least will stay and be learned. Also, considering that you served in the Egyptian military, you'll know better than other observers.

Fair enough. I just didn't want any blowback accusations that the post is too long and all that fun stuff lol.

BTW, just to be clear and for the sake of accuracy, I did my mandatory conscription in the army. I didn't really serve as per true definition of the word. In other words, I wasn't really a "soldier", by any means. Just did my required military service as one of several boys/brothers/siblings. Men who are the only male child are exempt from conscription service in Egypt.

Also, depending on luck of the draw, you can either serve 14 months as an officer or 3 years as a grunt depending on your luck. In my case, I lucked out and got the former requirement and not the latter.