PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[MastanKhan]

Yes for sure, in the same way like JH-7A, J-11B, J-15 and the Liaoning and 055 DDG, and J-16 which are said to be not only available for free but like some claim already secretly in service in Pakistan … today a clown on Twitter suggested, Pakistan should introduce H-6 bombers.

You guys should stop smoking that stuff.
Come on, J-20 will not be available, J-35 won’t be ready for the PLAN in 3-4 years and surely not a not yet flown fighter J-31.

Hi,

You always stayed less intelligent ABOUT DEFENCE PROCUREMENT deals---. Just like about the design of the 5th gen aircraft---you had no clue how limited design frames were for the 5th gen s---or israelis helping chinese with lavi---or chinese stealing f-35 design etc etc etc---even though US congress has sessions regarding israelis giving lavi design and F35 desing being compromised.

As for me---pak has 054's---J-10Cs that you stated that pakistan was broke could not afford---and then 8 subs coming in.

My boy---keep your school teacher's job---and keep a tab on the unit numbers of aircraft---that is all you are good for---.

 

[Awwad]

I neither used the word useless nor did I imply this craft being useless in any way. It will of course be a fantastic option for Pakistan but if the PLAAF refuses to buy it, it won't get mass-produced; consequently, making it too expensive for PAF. We have yet to see how similar or different the J-35 and J-31 will be so I will refrain from mentioning J-35. From my perspective, things look grim for PAF's 5th-generation fighter procurement ambitions.

Simple explanation why J-31 isn't in PLAAF and what's its purpose.

China selected J-20, a heavy weight 5th gen fighter for its own airforce. It's the tip of the spear for their airforce and not for sale.
While lighter and less powerful J-31 is for export market. Especially the market which cannot purchase F-35 for one reason or the other. It was important for China to not leave out this important export market (for 5th gen customers) and that too without giving away its most advance fighter. As far as manufacturing with economies of scale is concerned, there should be lot of parts commonality not just with J-35 but even with other chinese 4.5 gen fighters. For example, the radar is said to be the same as in the JF17C. Nothing official but its reported in past in Janes (https://web.archive.org/web/2016122...henyang-fc-31-fifth-generation-export-fighter)

 

[Awwad]

The Chinese are too stingy when it comes to sharing state-of-the-art technology even with key allies like Pakistan.

Who isn't ? There is no nation that will share its state of the art tech. Only if you pour massive $$ then possibilities can open.

 

[Nilgiri]

Gentlemen - its time to return to jets please

I propose merging this thread with this one (that is already pinned):

PAF Future Acquisition Plans

The Chief of Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Babar today at a ceremony at the Central Air Command AOR confirmed the Pakistan Air Force’s plans to procure the Shenyang J-31 multirole stealth fighter jet from China. The CAS said that “the foundation for...

defencepk.com

Then re-title it if needed to something like PAF future acquisition plans etc.

This would streamlines things better and get rid of the clickbaitey youtube title of this one that has added most of the pressure to go off topic so far.

 

[VCheng]

I propose merging this thread with this one (that is already pinned):

PAF Future Acquisition Plans

The Chief of Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Babar today at a ceremony at the Central Air Command AOR confirmed the Pakistan Air Force’s plans to procure the Shenyang J-31 multirole stealth fighter jet from China. The CAS said that “the foundation for...

defencepk.com

Then re-title it if needed to something like PAF future acquisition plans etc.

This would streamlines things better and get rid of the clickbaitey youtube title of this one that has added most of the pressure to go off topic so far.

Done.

 

[Zarvan]

If this is true then would PLAAF even bother with an aircraft like J-31? Why go for a fighter that provides you with nothing that the J-20 already doesn't provide? And if PLAAF doesn't go for the J-31, this aircraft won't be able to take advantage of the economies of scale; consequently, making it unattractive to PAF.

Why would USA go for F-35 when they have F-22. For love of GOD countries with bigger Air Forces often go for more than one type of Air Craft. J-31 will be a beast specially as China itself wants to induct it as J-35 the Naval version. And @Deino I think J-31 is going to materialize really very soon for Pakistan Air Force.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

You always stayed less intelligent ABOUT DEFENCE PROCUREMENT deals---. Just like about the design of the 5th gen aircraft---you had no clue how limited design frames were for the 5th gen s---or israelis helping chinese with lavi---or chinese stealing f-35 design etc etc etc---even though US congress has sessions regarding israelis giving lavi design and F35 desing being compromised.

As for me---pak has 054's---J-10Cs that you stated that pakistan was broke could not afford---and then 8 subs coming in.

My boy---keep your school teacher's job---and keep a tab on the unit numbers of aircraft---that is all you are good for---.

He is about to get a shock of his life really soon.

 

[CSAW]

 

[kalakhan]

Simple question... what is F 10 ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Simple explanation why J-31 isn't in PLAAF and what's its purpose.

China selected J-20, a heavy weight 5th gen fighter for its own airforce. It's the tip of the spear for their airforce and not for sale.
While lighter and less powerful J-31 is for export market. Especially the market which cannot purchase F-35 for one reason or the other. It was important for China to not leave out this important export market (for 5th gen customers) and that too without giving away its most advance fighter. As far as manufacturing with economies of scale is concerned, there should be lot of parts commonality not just with J-35 but even with other chinese 4.5 gen fighters. For example, the radar is said to be the same as in the JF17C. Nothing official but its reported in past in Janes (https://web.archive.org/web/2016122...henyang-fc-31-fifth-generation-export-fighter)

Hi,

That is incorrect---. The chinese manufactured two 5th gen aircraft at the same time with great success---.

They decided to develop one of them ahead of the other---so that what they learn from the first one would be a stair step towards developing the other one to a higher plateau.

The J20 is an interceptor type aircraft---to take out the enemy refuellers from long distances---.

The J-31 otoh is a totally different type of aircraft---stealth though it is but more similar in business to its american counterpart the F-35---in function and utility.

So---it is not the issue of what is for export and what is not---.

The procurement of an aircraft depends upon its suitable utility for the air force that demands it---. The J31's utility meets the current need of the Paf in the coming years---.

Now this is easy to understand for many---but for for someone who is snooping around for information---.

 

[MastanKhan]

He is about to get a shock of his life really soon.

Hi,

He has had many shocks before---but he survives because of Oscar---.

 

[White Privilege]

there are many that echo this sentiment within the Pakistani corridors of power but are shut out by the mediocre or opportunists.

That doesn’t mean that India for both its national interest (and at times under hawkish extremist push) doesn’t pose the primary threat to Pakistan. But that the policies to tackle the threat - either by resolving the issues when the opportunity was ripe(98-99 & 2006-7) or through proper calculated strategy (Limited application of the Kargil “adventure” and Kashmiri nationalism rather than rabid Jihadists) was simply not done. Combine that with what is repeatedly pointed out is total institutional failure and strip mining of Pakistan’s resources and gross mismanagement - Pakistan’s quasi-state structure has been writing checks it had no capacity to cash in any aspect.

Now that overarching strategic goal is lost - it should count its blessings. Finish at LoC and work to keep what it has as @Aamir Hussain has so eloquently put - and do all it can to mend relations with India even if it means bending backwards because right now it has less and less of a choice.

The defense is secured - Pakistan’s weapons are still sufficient to blunt any aggression for the required time to send messages and get sanity in play while the calculus to cause irreparable harm to India is kept with the large number of nuclear warheads and delivery systems - MAD exists in the subcontinent and any ABM or otherwise guarantees nothing more than maybe 5% less losses.

But the issue is NOT that - and its internal to Pakistan and beyond the scope of this thread.

I don't believe our defense is 'secured' since we still have Indians as our neighbour, belligerent as ever, only enabled by Uncle Sam in their hatred for Pakistan. What can we do, Indians don't think rationally when it comes to Pakistan, they think we are below them, and would not make peace with us. A joint declaration making LOC as international border is not happening. They still are harping the mantra of 'taking back Pakistani Kashmir'.

And MAD 'does not exist' in subcontinent, since both countries are willing to use conventional power as much as they can, and also the Brahmos incident has only demonstrated to Indians that we do not have the stomach to 'first use' even if a missile is headed for us. I am not complaining about Pakistani decision makers' 'indecision' in the face of a 'missile attack', not everyone can stomach that, but our bluff of first use has been called after this, and we need to re-establish deterrence....

 

[Manticore]

The capability we have now is far better than during the lost decade of PAF. IAF needs to be 3to1 superior to PAF both in quality and quantity as an aggressor to take over a low scale war.
Pakistan needs a better economy to make life easier

 

[Manticore]

Hi,

That is incorrect---. The chinese manufactured two 5th gen aircraft at the same time with great success---.

They decided to develop one of them ahead of the other---so that what they learn from the first one would be a stair step towards developing the other one to a higher plateau.

The J20 is an interceptor type aircraft---to take out the enemy refuellers from long distances---.

The J-31 otoh is a totally different type of aircraft---stealth though it is but more similar in business to its american counterpart the F-35---in function and utility.

So---it is not the issue of what is for export and what is not---.

The procurement of an aircraft depends upon its suitable utility for the air force that demands it---. The J31's utility meets the current need of the Paf in the coming years---.

Now this is easy to understand for many---but for for someone who is snooping around for information---.

The only concern I have with j31 is if its structural design is frozen some years back after china green lit the j35 carrier design.
I dont want the PAF to pay for the teething process of j31 particularly when its not a JV

 

[MastanKhan]

The only concern I have with j31 is if its structural design is frozen some years back after china green lit the j35 carrier design.
I dont want the PAF to pay for the teething process of j31 particularly when its not a JV

Hi,

That is something that we will not know---never if they don't want us to know---.

Now if an aircraft like the JF17 can go thru structural design changes---rest assured that the J-31 would too---.

We just learn about the superficial things that we see and the tidbits they want to leak for our appetite---.

Paf will pay for the teeth that it wants in the J31---every air force does that if they have the ability to---. The israelis just take out the whole of the 32 teeth and implant their complete dentures to install their fangs in place---.

Paf will do the same---. We have some 'fangs' in development that we will see on the j31's---.