PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[MastanKhan]

The capability we have now is far better than during the lost decade of PAF. IAF needs to be 3to1 superior to PAF both in quality and quantity as an aggressor to take over a low scale war.
Pakistan needs a better economy to make life easier

Hi,

With what Paf has done---IAF will never reach the 3 to 1 goal---. They will be playing catchup for years to come---.

 

[Manticore]

Hi,

That is something that we will not know---never if they don't want us to know---.

Now if an aircraft like the JF17 can go thru structural design changes---rest assured that the J-31 would too---.

We just learn about the superficial things that we see and the tidbits they want to leak for our appetite---.

Paf will pay for the teeth that it wants in the J31---every air force does that if they have the ability to---. The israelis just take out the whole of the 32 teeth and implant their complete dentures to install their fangs in place---.

Paf will do the same---. We have some 'fangs' in development that we will see on the j31's---.

I personally think that we should move on from jf17. I mean 200 jft to make a backbone is enough. What else do we want from the poor fighter? The reason we got so many jf17 was because we were coproducing them.

We need to invest in our next JV work horse. Be it semi stealth kf21 / j10c 4.5 gen fighters or 5 th gen aircaft etc which will remain relevant for next decades. Eventhough j10 is not semi stealth but its the only single engine modern fighter that we can get in bulk which is above jf17 in weight class

 

[Deino]

Why would USA go for F-35 when they have F-22. For love of GOD countries with bigger Air Forces often go for more than one type of Air Craft. J-31 will be a beast specially as China itself wants to induct it as J-35 the Naval version. And @Deino I think J-31 is going to materialize really very soon for Pakistan Air Force.

In fact I totally agree with you in principle - by the way I hope you know how much I respect and value your opinion even if I do not always agree - and as much as I would love to see a J-31 or land-based J-35 of some sort in PLAAF colours, my current estimation is, the PLAAF is indeed focused on the J-20.

But anyway, my point is - and here I totally agree with these posts:

If this is true then would PLAAF even bother with an aircraft like J-31? Why go for a fighter that provides you with nothing that the J-20 already doesn't provide? And if PLAAF doesn't go for the J-31, this aircraft won't be able to take advantage of the economies of scale; consequently, making it unattractive to PAF.

I neither used the word useless nor did I imply this craft being useless in any way. It will of course be a fantastic option for Pakistan but if the PLAAF refuses to buy it, it won't get mass-produced; consequently, making it too expensive for PAF. We have yet to see how similar or different the J-35 and J-31 will be so I will refrain from mentioning J-35. From my perspective, things look grim for PAF's 5th-generation fighter procurement ambitions.

As such we need to wait not for again some claims in social media or by a certain Pakistani politician or military more or less only confirming an "interest and intention" to purchase that bird but to look at SAC, on when a first true J-31 will appear. As such we come back again to this question:

He is about to get a shock of his life really soon.

Again, may I ask what you understand as "soon"?

 

[Deino]

Did Pakistan singed contract to buy J-31 fighter jets or it is just negotiation ??
What is difference between J-31 and J-35 jet fighters ??

That's exactly the point ... besides all brahoo, "Pakistan will get J-31 anytime soon"! there is simply no J-31 yet.
Even more so - and here agreeing again with @_NOBODY_ - it depends on so much other factors: Will the PLAAF indeed go not the J-31-road, then who will pay for the J-31's development? Surely not SAC on its own, surely not China if not another customer is in the background and IMO unlikely Pakistan? So it will take even longer ...

As such, even if, then the most likely guess is, this alleged "new J-31" is not exactly the FC-31 no. 31003 (often erroneously called J-31) but a "J-35-light" including all the revised aerodynamics - aka the revised spine behind the canopy for improving aerodynamics - but without all carrier related things like the landing gear & catapult bar, the folding wings (maybe like the F-35A vs F-35C a smaller wing) and so on.

All this will take time ... at least several years so even if a "new J-31" prototype may be ready already this year, it will at least take a few years of flight testing, system integration, certification and so on ... in the end, surely 5-6 years a minimum, so that deliveries to Pakistan or any other customer can happen only by 2030! If this is "soon", then I can agree.

 

[harpy1]

Hi,

With what Paf has done---IAF will never reach the 3 to 1 goal---. They will be playing catchup for years to come---.

That three to one ratio is myth ....
Israel has beaten Arab Airforce in six days whilst outnumbered

Ukrainian outnumbered ten to one has stopped Russia achieving air superiority using drones and Sam's from NATO ..

It's the quality of the air force and the systems over all ..including Sam's and awacs and space based assets like satalites

India can beat PAF with ease if it invests in the right equipment ...it has far bigger resources and more supplier options

How far will Pak Awacs go before being picked up by S400 or green pine radars

How many losses of J10 or F16 to Indian Sam's and newer longer range bvrs like meteore or Astra 1 and 2

As for India entering Pak air space with fighters not intially not until long range missiles have done damage to infrastructure first
Im talking
Brahmos
Scalp
Prahaar

Predator drones

Rafale fighters both air force and navy carry strike cruise missiles ranging 600km
Even long range navy strikes using next generation brahmos can go deep into Pakistan from.the sea

Fighters is just one small part..

Your right India wil never achieve three to one superiority in fighters

But equipment systems overall future investment it has and will continue to do so

 

[Zarvan]

In fact I totally agree with you in principle - by the way I hope you know how much I respect and value your opinion even if I do not always agree - and as much as I would love to see a J-31 or land-based J-35 of some sort in PLAAF colours, my current estimation is, the PLAAF is indeed focused on the J-20.

But anyway, my point is - and here I totally agree with these posts:




As such we need to wait not for again some claims in social media or by a certain Pakistani politician or military more or less only confirming an "interest and intention" to purchase that bird but to look at SAC, on when a first true J-31 will appear. As such we come back again to this question:



Again, may I ask what you understand as "soon"?

Few months to a 1.5 year at max.

 

[Deino]

Few months to a 1.5 year at max.

Well, you mean when we'll see a first J-31 prototype or when we'll see the first Pakistani one?

And even more on what do you base this estimate?

 

[Quwa]

That's exactly the point ... besides all brahoo, "Pakistan will get J-31 anytime soon"! there is simply no J-31 yet.
Even more so - and here agreeing again with @_NOBODY_ - it depends on so much other factors: Will the PLAAF indeed go not the J-31-road, then who will pay for the J-31's development? Surely not SAC on its own, surely not China if not another customer is in the background and IMO unlikely Pakistan? So it will take even longer ...

As such, even if, then the most likely guess is, this alleged "new J-31" is not exactly the FC-31 no. 31003 (often erroneously called J-31) but a "J-35-light" including all the revised aerodynamics - aka the revised spine behind the canopy for improving aerodynamics - but without all carrier related things like the landing gear & catapult bar, the folding wings (maybe like the F-35A vs F-35C a smaller wing) and so on.

All this will take time ... at least several years so even if a "new J-31" prototype may be ready already this year, it will at least take a few years of flight testing, system integration, certification and so on ... in the end, surely 5-6 years a minimum, so that deliveries to Pakistan or any other customer can happen only by 2030! If this is "soon", then I can agree.

It's possible that one of the GCC states (Saudi or UAE) are co-funding the J-31 with Pakistan. They might not induct the jet, but there's been some interest in both Abu Dhabi and Riyadh to enter the world of fighter manufacturing. Perhaps they've begun co-funding the project in return for work share?

 

[Deino]

It's possible that one of the GCC states (Saudi or UAE) are co-funding the J-31 with Pakistan. They might not induct the jet, but there's been some interest in both Abu Dhabi and Riyadh to enter the world of fighter manufacturing. Perhaps they've begun co-funding the project in return for work share?

That's indeed a possible explanation

 

[Reichmarshal]

That three to one ratio is myth ....
Israel has beaten Arab Airforce in six days whilst outnumbered

The only reason why isreal always came on top is the simple fact that the u.s was providing all out support to isreal n was going all out in favor of it

Ukrainian outnumbered ten to one has stopped Russia achieving air superiority using drones and Sam's from NATO ..

That was the beginning ofbtye conflict, I've said it before n I will say it again, like in ww2 it took time for the russian war machine to come on line n now once it on line it is churning out ac, tanks? Drones etc at an increasing pace which is unprecedented....n now as can be seen they are gaining ground at a very steady pace which will increase.
The Ukrainians have done a dis service to Europe by waking up a sleeping giant

It's the quality of the air force and the systems over all ..including Sam's and awacs and space based assets like satalites

India can beat PAF with ease if it invests in the right equipment ...it has far bigger resources and more supplier options

If india could it would....in bollywood yes.

How far will Pak Awacs go before being picked up by S400 or green pine radars

How many losses of J10 or F16 to Indian Sam's and newer longer range bvrs like meteore or Astra 1 and 2

Ww need to understand our strategy is offensive defence....meaning we will be fighting mostly in our own terrority.....the things u mention above iaf needs to worry about.
Wasay PAF went into ur terrority a couple of years ago n almost blew ur brigade hq with ur army chief in it...if not for our last min warning.....how many ac did u shoot down

As for India entering Pak air space with fighters not intially not until long range missiles have done damage to infrastructure first
Im talking
Brahmos
Scalp
Prahaar

Predator drones

wt goes around comes around

Rafale fighters both air force and navy carry strike cruise missiles ranging 600km
Even long range navy strikes using next generation brahmos can go deep into Pakistan from.the sea

Fighters is just one small part..

Your right India wil never achieve three to one superiority in fighters

But equipment systems overall future investment it has and will continue to do so

All looking good on paper.....baki madhan be hazir ha our ghora be......

 

[Oscar]

I don't believe our defense is 'secured' since we still have Indians as our neighbour, belligerent as ever, only enabled by Uncle Sam in their hatred for Pakistan. What can we do, Indians don't think rationally when it comes to Pakistan, they think we are below them, and would not make peace with us. A joint declaration making LOC as international border is not happening. They still are harping the mantra of 'taking back Pakistani Kashmir'.

And MAD 'does not exist' in subcontinent, since both countries are willing to use conventional power as much as they can, and also the Brahmos incident has only demonstrated to Indians that we do not have the stomach to 'first use' even if a missile is headed for us. I am not complaining about Pakistani decision makers' 'indecision' in the face of a 'missile attack', not everyone can stomach that, but our bluff of first use has been called after this, and we need to re-establish deterrence....

Their belligerence is more now focused on internal destabilization and economic strangleholds. So it’s better to fix those situations rather than trying to fight three fronts constantly.

 

[Oscar]

That's indeed a possible explanation

I’ll be the devils advocate and say this was a “legacy” announcement by the outgoing Chief. Not that there isn’t intent or discussion or otherwise - but the road ahead may not be as easy a stroll as is being presented.

 

[Trailer23]

Few months to a 1.5 year at max.

No offense, but I have a better shot at nailing Natalie Portman.

PAF needs 1.5 Years just to print a brochure.

...and using J-10c as a backdrop isn't an example - if you're going use its surprise induction.

J-10c was already in Production (for Years) and operated by the PLAAF.

The J-31 is (still) currently in Tests. Lets treat it as Fighter Jet and not a can of soda that we/China can just pump out of Factory.

One should not rush into these things 'cause last thing you want are teething problems once inducted.

Anyone recall the 1st image we all got of the JF-17 Block III - all those years ago. It took quite a while to induct that variant - even though two earlier versions were already being operated by the PAF.

 

[Deino]

Concerning future acquisitions of fighters,

Hi,

Here is a spy at work---. First come the insults and then start scraping for information.

Can you not only do what you could really do a good way? Shut up and sell cars ... otherwise as an admitted spreader of lies and fake news "to fool spies" no-one here takes it for granted what you say.

Man, your constant insults are getting boring....

 

[Deino]

....

The J-31 is (still) currently in Tests. Lets treat it as Fighter Jet and not a can of soda that we/China can just pump out of Factory.

....

But that's the point! There is no J-31, not even still but simply not in any way! All there is are three known J-35 prototypes, but no J-31.