PAF Future Acquisition Plans

Btw - given how expensive USA upgrades are, ie the cost of taking F16 to F16V standard, and airframe extension, you will find it pretty close to the cost of a new J10CE ... so why both with the upgrade? Why not move the F16s into the 3rd tier, and operate more J10CE's ?

Upgrades for PAF for the F16 fleet make no sense, given the cost of the J10CE's and JF17s with their unrestricted usecases available to the PAF..
 
100 percent
Our resources and options are ten fold
So let's see
Hi,

But your procurement history is TERRIBLE---.

You cannot buy 10 times just because you have resource---you do not have infra structure to absorb anything like that---.

You don't even have infra structure to absorb 2 times the numbers---.
 
Pardon, but could you plaese explain your last sentence?



Even more so since you did not reply to this post above: I think there is - besides all media news in Pakistan which I surely do not understand at all - a huge misunderstanding on your side!


IMO the timeline simply cannot fit ...
J-10 C deal was signed in March 2021 but it was only in December of 2021 that it was announced that J-10 was coming to Pakistan by Sheikh Rasheed, PAF never announced it and then by 11 March 2022 the J-10 C were in Pakistan. That is how China and Pakistan work. Air Chief is not a child that he would announce an induction of J-31 which is years and years away.
 
J-10 C deal was signed in March 2021 but it was only in December of 2021 that it was announced that J-10 was coming to Pakistan by Sheikh Rasheed, PAF never announced it and then by 11 March 2022 the J-10 C were in Pakistan. That is how China and Pakistan work. Air Chief is not a child that he would announce an induction of J-31 which is years and years away.
Hi,

You should know by now that he gets diarhhea when pakistan gets new weapons in a surprise move

He just simply can't live with the fact as to how pakistan gets the money to get the money to pay for them---..
 
I was thinking more down the lines of Black Swan Natalie Portman. But I got no issues with the THOR version either.

I will say the the current Air Chief jumped the gun on the announcement of the J-31 when there isn't much information to go 'bout this Ghost Project*.

*...a la ‎Keyser Söze.
As I said it's a PR campaign by and for the current ACM.
 
Btw - given how expensive USA upgrades are, ie the cost of taking F16 to F16V standard, and airframe extension, you will find it pretty close to the cost of a new J10CE ... so why both with the upgrade? Why not move the F16s into the 3rd tier, and operate more J10CE's ?

Upgrades for PAF for the F16 fleet make no sense, given the cost of the J10CE's and JF17s with their unrestricted usecases available to the PAF..
Sir when it comes to Pakistani Armed Forces, our recent acquisitions, our size and our officially announced budget if you want to make sense of any of it you would fail miserably. So. let's focus on J-31 and other future plans of PAF.
 
Hi,

I just wanted to be conservative in describing range.
Sir jee, That may be so but even if the range is 200 km then even then india can't place the s 400 near the border.
As the Indians while inducting the sys were jumping with joy that now they had the capability to shoot down ac inside our airspace while they r taking off.
It is a force multiplier that has negated the s400 visa vie our air space...
N our war will primarily be in our own air space with a defence posture....while its india that has to make all the moves
 
J-10 C deal was signed in March 2021 but it was only in December of 2021 that it was announced that J-10 was coming to Pakistan by Sheikh Rasheed, PAF never announced it and then by 11 March 2022 the J-10 C were in Pakistan. That is how China and Pakistan work. Air Chief is not a child that he would announce an induction of J-31 which is years and years away.


Sorry and why didn't you argue or reply to my last post?? ... there is indeed a major misunderstanding on your side and in fact this reply seems to prove it even more:

First you cannot compare the J-10CE acquisition with this alleged one since the J-10 was in production since years, in numbers well within several hundreds by the PLAAF itself, it was a proven type and developed even in improved variants, aka the J-10C. As such, the timeline is not even close to comparable.

Second, even if the Air Chief is surely not a child - no-one said this - his term "soon" is a political flexible term. Even five to eight years from now (aka 2029-2032) would be "soon" and therefore I do not understand your obsession on this very soon term "several months to 1.5 years at a maximum"!? This is plain impossible ...

Third: You noted several additional prototypes, even one in 2018 and quoted even an alleged Tweet from me! THIS IS ALL WRONG!!! Fact is the first FC-31 demonstrator no. 31001 flew in late 2013. The second heavily revised demonstrator no. 31003 flew in late 2016 and in 2018 a yet again revised proposal was chosen to become the PLAN‘s new stealth fighter, but no new prototype flew in 2018.

In summary, the first true J-35 prototype no. 350001 flew first in October 2021 followed by a second one no. 350003 in May(?) 2022. Since then a most likely third one was seen in green primer at SAC in July 2023 and allegedly flown in September. = we have three confirmed prototypes between late 2021 and late 2023 and not a third in 2018 and like no. 04 & 05 without images! This is plain wrong! Yes, we have at best some very vague rumors about a possible landbased prototype - aka the third one seen in August 2023 - but the latest images I have show it is most likely simply a third J-35 and surely not a J-31 in 2018 or maybe more later.

Therefore again, SAC and esp. the PLAN needs additional J-35 prototypes for testing that bird in order to start carrier tests off the PLANS-18 once the sea trials are completed. In summary I don’t know why you think „There are really high chances Prototype and 3 and 4 and even 5 have been flying and no picture released.“ - and even IF, then these are more likely J-35s as explained - and I surely never posted this on twitter.

I admire your enthusiasm and I'm the first - contrary to what again an old member lies again! - who wants Pakistan to get this bird ASAP, but one need to stick to facts.
 
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Hi,

But your procurement history is TERRIBLE---.

You cannot buy 10 times just because you have resource---you do not have infra structure to absorb anything like that---.

You don't even have infra structure to absorb 2 times the numbers---.


To clarify my point
I am not suggesting India has or will have tens times the equipment
I merely pointing out the huge financial handicap PAF faces which will continue to get bigger based on current trajectory .

Outsmarting Chinese good will can give you breathing space

But medium.to long term.you are outgunned

India will induct alot more than PAF and far bigger cost will ensure the current gap remains or gets bigger in Indian favour

You said India is inefficient in modernising

That I agree with defo

But this complancey is not indefinite
 
To clarify my point
I am not suggesting India has or will have tens times the equipment
I merely pointing out the huge financial handicap PAF faces which will continue to get bigger based on current trajectory .

Outsmarting Chinese good will can give you breathing space

But medium.to long term.you are outgunned

India will induct alot more than PAF and far bigger cost will ensure the current gap remains or gets bigger in Indian favour

You said India is inefficient in modernising

That I agree with defo

But this complancey is not indefinite
Acquiring systems from abroad, especially expensive ones like fighter jets, can be challenging and time-consuming. However, the Rafales mark the last import for the Indian Air Force. Future fighter jets will be domestically produced, Tejas MK1A, MK2, TEDBF, AMCA, and HF-24 MARUT.
 
Btw - given how expensive USA upgrades are, ie the cost of taking F16 to F16V standard, and airframe extension, you will find it pretty close to the cost of a new J10CE ... so why both with the upgrade? Why not move the F16s into the 3rd tier, and operate more J10CE's ?

Upgrades for PAF for the F16 fleet make no sense, given the cost of the J10CE's and JF17s with their unrestricted usecases available to the PAF..

Our all old F16A/Bs already received MLUed to block 50/52 standards except 14 ex-Jordanian Airforce F16s (ADF) for which PAF haven't decided yet.
 
Our all old F16A/Bs already received MLUed to block 50/52 standards except 14 ex-Jordanian Airforce F16s (ADF) for which PAF haven't decided yet.
IMO , they decided long ago, to keep them right where they are.
 
Sorry and why didn't you argue or reply to my last post?? ... there is indeed a major misunderstanding on your side and in fact this reply seems to prove it even more:

First you cannot compare the J-10CE acquisition with this alleged one since the J-10 was in production since years, in numbers well within several hundreds by the PLAAF itself, it was a proven type and developed even in improved variants, aka the J-10C. As such, the timeline is not even close to comparable.

Second, even if the Air Chief is surely not a child - no-one said this - his term "soon" is a political flexible term. Even five to eight years from now (aka 2029-2032) would be "soon" and therefore I do not understand your obsession on this very soon term "several months to 1.5 years at a maximum"!? This is plain impossible ...

Third: You noted several additional prototypes, even one in 2018 and quoted even an alleged Tweet from me! THIS IS ALL WRONG!!! Fact is the first FC-31 demonstrator no. 31001 flew in late 2013. The second heavily revised demonstrator no. 31003 flew in late 2016 and in 2018 a yet again revised proposal was chosen to become the PLAN‘s new stealth fighter, but no new prototype flew in 2018.

In summary, the first true J-35 prototype no. 350001 flew first in October 2021 followed by a second one no. 350003 in May(?) 2022. Since then a most likely third one was seen in green primer at SAC in July 2023 and allegedly flown in September. = we have three confirmed prototypes between late 2021 and late 2023 and not a third in 2018 and like no. 04 & 05 without images! This is plain wrong! Yes, we have at best some very vague rumors about a possible landbased prototype - aka the third one seen in August 2023 - but the latest images I have show it is most likely simply a third J-35 and surely not a J-31 in 2018 or maybe more later.

Therefore again, SAC and esp. the PLAN needs additional J-35 prototypes for testing that bird in order to start carrier tests off the PLANS-18 once the sea trials are completed. In summary I don’t know why you think „There are really high chances Prototype and 3 and 4 and even 5 have been flying and no picture released.“ - and even IF, then these are more likely J-35s as explained - and I surely never posted this on twitter.

I admire your enthusiasm and I'm the first - contrary to what again an old member lies again! - who wants Pakistan to get this bird ASAP, but one need to stick to facts.
Chill bro, This is China we are talking about, not Boeing or LM. Reality is stranger than fiction. Study their track record with us. Don't look for the obvious, look for the NOT SO obvious.

Last but not least, do enjoy your weekend. Cheers!
 

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