PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[Signalian]

Exactly. Moreover, the PAF went through the whole process (and cost) of inducting the J-10CE for a reason -- it wasn't to induct yet another platform within a couple of years. IMO, aside from the JF-17, the bulk of the PAF's fighter orders through the 2020s will center on the J-10CE. The PAF doesn't induct a new fighter type unless it has a roadmap or plan to procure at least 90 units.

Expecting to see Turkish weapons on chinese stealth aircrafts ?

 

[shabi]

Exactly. Moreover, the PAF went through the whole process (and cost) of inducting the J-10CE for a reason -- it wasn't to induct yet another platform within a couple of years. IMO, aside from the JF-17, the bulk of the PAF's fighter orders through the 2020s will center on the J-10CE. The PAF doesn't induct a new fighter type unless it has a roadmap or plan to procure at least 90 units.

Usually PAF only inducts as counter to a InAF capability and it appeared PAF was waiting for Azm and had a long roadmap planned for 5th gen aircraft to be ready when F-16s needed to phase out or InAF had 5th gen aircraft. PAF took its time deciding on J-10, perhaps it was a rush purchase not even waiting for JF-17 blk-3 production fearing another Balakot incident especially with general elections due April-May 2024 for them. PAF gearing up for combat?

Or could be PAF giving up hope on even a Turkish upgrade for it's F-16s sensing a quick replacement.

 

[Qureshi]

anyhow we will be having two procurement running side by side including J-10C and J-35.

Slight correction....

PAF's interests in L15B was for the very reason, so it seems following will be the way to go...

• Continue JF17-III inductions.
• Continue of J10C inductions.
• L15B be getting inducted in next couple of years.
• PAF will start their pilots get transition training on twin engine aircrafts.
• J31/35 (Airforce version yet be designated) will start coming somewhere in 2030 (or later), if goes well.

i think induction is still 5-7 years away although PAF would be primary customer.

True.

 

[Qureshi]

Why would we want Block 70/72, when we have J10CE and Thunder Charlies, both of which match and in someways exceed the Block 70/72?

J10CE will replace the F7PG in the AD role (supplemented by F16 and Blk 1 Thunders). I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mirage fleet reach 2040 frankly. They are very good a the strike role and their ability to carry standoff and dart in very fast is going to remain useful.

Correction....

• PAF was never interested in BLK 70/72 nor it were offered.
• F7PGs are going to be replaced by L15Bs.
• Mirage will remain in service till 2030 (maybe) & will be replace by JF17-IIIs gradually.

 

[Sparten]

...and you are?

Son, this is the same 'Random' guy who broke out the J-10c News whilst talking to a CATIC Rep. at a previous DxB Air Show.

Unless you work in CATIC or PAC or PAF, you have no special knowledge and if you did you wouldn't be able to share it.

Evidence is present on [PDF 1.0], incase you're a newbie, Rookie.

I was on old PDF since 2006. Back when we had lots of people from old pakistan defence (where I was since 2001).

P.S.: I was also the one who informed 'bout the date & time when the L-15 departed from DxB & its stop in Pakistan for further tests.

Great. I know several aviation journalists who broke one story and had no idea of an other.

 

[Ghseean]

Slight correction....

PAF's interests in L15B was for the very reason, so it seems following will be the way to go...

• Continue JF17-III inductions.
• Continue of J10C inductions.
• L15B be getting inducted in next couple of years.
• PAF will start their pilots get transition training on twin engine aircrafts.
• J31/35 (Airforce version yet be designated) will start coming somewhere in 2030 (or later), if goes well.

True.

by the time J-35 induction start we will have Blk 3 already done, L-15 already done.

J-10C and J-35 will be going on.

 

[VersusChristi]

Expecting to see Turkish weapons on chinese stealth aircrafts ?

Not gonna happen. What does Turkey gain in it? Or what does China gain in it? Moreover NATO will become a headache.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Mulla ji as per my limited knowledge IAF already is working with ADA/DRDO on it for at least two decades and AMCA is coming out earlier than LCA MK2 for starters

and to counter chinese stealth already new genration radars both ground based and AWACS and fighter based are upgraded

thirdly India had a deal with russia for FGFA but it dint work out then but many things have changed in last three years and today niether russia nor USA is stopping any such transfers to india cause both have common enemy which is main enemy of india too se i short chances are we might get a couple of squads of either F35 Lightning II or maybe the upgraded/MKIsed russian T50s /FGFAs before AMCA is made oprational

The American engine in Tejas needs to be replaced by an Indian Kaveri or another engine within the next 10 years. Fortunately, India has the Kaveri engine. Of course, its 73KN thrust might not suffice for a single-engine multi-role fighter jet, but it's certainly adequate for a drone or trainer jet. India has gained substantial experience and knowledge over 40 years in developing this engine, and whatever engine they work on next can be completed in less than 10 years.
Pakistan enjoys strong ties with China, allowing them to acquire fighter jets at cheaper prices and in a shorter timeframe. They can also adopt a buy-now-pay-later approach. The sole method for India to retain a numerical advantage over Pakistan in the air force is by manufacturing fighter jets domestically.

 

[Harbyharb]

Expecting to see Turkish weapons on chinese stealth aircrafts ?

While I am for the most part, optimistic about the open architecture nature of Chinese platforms sharing the same databus protocol with NATO/Turkish systems, enabling continuous modular improvement, in this instance I don’t think Turkish weapons can find their way onto FC/JF-31 specifically.

For 5th gen aircraft, BVR missiles have lot more requirements and interactions with the airframe itself, so much so that missile sometimes need deliberate design alterations to meet the needs of stealth aircraft.

One rarely talked about advantage of 5th gen aircraft over 4th gen is the ability to launch missiles in far greater ranges of flight envelope, specifically in high G-load and supersonic speed ranges. Unlike 4th gen fighters that, despite their maximum speeds often exceeding mach 2, are usually still restricted to subsonic speed ranges during most of their combat maneuvers, especially when launching their missiles. This is in contrary to 5th gen aircraft, which as set by F-22’s example, seeks to possess advantage over 4th gen also in BVR agility and flexibility, able to have more windows of attack while possessing greater energy in evading incoming missile, reducing probability of kill.

This means the munition bays of a stealth aircraft have to be designed in conjunction of its intended armament, to not just release, but purposefully eject the missile out of the munition bay to avoid aerodynamic interference and risk of collision, which means trying to accommodate new missiles of different origin into the internal bays of FC-31 is more costly and complicated than say, JF-17 or J-10CP.

Moreover, newer advanced 5th gen projects like F-35 and J-20 also sports the introduction of EODAS, which allows for 360 degrees attack via BVR missile in completely novel guidance and navigation modes. While I’m not sure if the export FC-31 will sport this feature, it is something that I don’t think turkish missiles are ready for yet.

 

[Dalit]

Mulla ji as per my limited knowledge IAF already is working with ADA/DRDO on it for at least two decades and AMCA is coming out earlier than LCA MK2 for starters

and to counter chinese stealth already new genration radars both ground based and AWACS and fighter based are upgraded

thirdly India had a deal with russia for FGFA but it dint work out then but many things have changed in last three years and today niether russia nor USA is stopping any such transfers to india cause both have common enemy which is main enemy of india too se i short chances are we might get a couple of squads of either F35 Lightning II or maybe the upgraded/MKIsed russian T50s /FGFAs before AMCA is made oprational

It is a cat and mouse game. If India does A Pakistan does B. Vice versa the same story. Both will always be cancelling each other out.

 

[Qureshi]

by the time J-35 induction start we will have Blk 3 already done, L-15 already done.

J-10C and J-35 will be going on.

Even J10Cs would done to by the time we will get our first J31/35.

 

[Yasser76]

Absolute game changer for PAF. Just as significant as getting F-16s in the early 80s. We (again) have allied ourself with a major power to have access to some of the best tech on very favourable terms. So what you like about Pakistan's politics but we tend to strategically pull this off is commendable. India will not have access to F-35 (Has been denied to Turkey, UAE and Saudi and India is full of Russian military technicians and S-400). IAF has two choices now, go for S-57 and get in bed with Russia or join on of the 2 major European projects (Brit/Jap/Swede Tempest or French/German FCA).

 

[Guru Dutt]

Absolute game changer for PAF. Just as significant as getting F-16s in the early 80s. We (again) have allied ourself with a major power to have access to some of the best tech on very favourable terms. So what you like about Pakistan's politics but we tend to strategically pull this off is commendable. India will not have access to F-35 (Has been denied to Turkey, UAE and Saudi and India is full of Russian military technicians and S-400). IAF has two choices now, go for S-57 and get in bed with Russia or join on of the 2 major European projects (Brit/Jap/Swede Tempest or French/German FCA).

we dont get in bed or sell owr soul as a nation for weapons SIR .... we get them buy paying HARD CASH and dont indulge in REVERSE ENINEERING thats why be it USA-UK-FRANCE-SWEDEN-ISAREL or RUSSIA all sell there latest stuff to us while none sells the same to china nor do they donate it to pakistan

secondly we are already in process of proptotype fabrication state for the homegrown AMCA and been working with russian for more than a decade for its T50/FGFA and americans are pressuring us to buy there F35 L II so dont worry for us we will get it as and when we need it .. right now we are in no hurry ...cheers mate

 

[Ali_Baba]

I suspect this news is more about "forcing" India into either the USA camp for F-35s that they dont want due to restrictions, or forcing them into the Russian camp for Su-57 or Su-75 since their AMCA will take along time.

And - then seeing where things go "politically" ....

India will feel the need to react to this news quickly as stealth is a game change in South Asia ... but right now - they are in an uncomfortable position as far as stealth goes ......

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Absolute game changer for PAF. Just as significant as getting F-16s in the early 80s. We (again) have allied ourself with a major power to have access to some of the best tech on very favourable terms. So what you like about Pakistan's politics but we tend to strategically pull this off is commendable. India will not have access to F-35 (Has been denied to Turkey, UAE and Saudi and India is full of Russian military technicians and S-400). IAF has two choices now, go for S-57 and get in bed with Russia or join on of the 2 major European projects (Brit/Jap/Swede Tempest or French/German FCA).

The Indian Air Force has declined the Su-57, citing a lack of substantial advantages over a fourth-generation jet that would warrant its consideration. While the Su-57 is in the Initial Operational Clearance stage, the IAF intends to review it once it's fully prepared. Presently, the TEDBF and AMCA stand as the sole options for India. However, India's top priority lies in developing an indigenous engine for these jets to ensure that Indian fighter jet programs won't face delays due to potential American sanctions, similar to the setbacks encountered by the Tejas program following India's nuclear tests in 1990. Presently, the delivery of the Tejas MK2 engine is facing delays amid strained relations between India and the US.