Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[Deino]

Yeah Dassault CEO told you that ?
It's 3 not 2. Insecurity is making you lose concentration.



Use your brain, that's not how corporate works. Those countries with existing order didn't order with any clause saying that Dassault has to increase the prod rate. So why would Dassault allocate all new prod line slots to the previous orders.

You are so much funny ... this is indeed exactly the nativity I joke about since so many years:
"The world will wait for us, since we Indians want it that way!"

No, the world goes on, regardless what your bureaucracy or procurement rules say. This was the same, when the very first proposals were made for the Tejas Mk.2 ("Oh, when we enlarge the fuselage and wing, we really need a more powerful engine? Oh, that's new to us ... we'll find a solution!") or when India surprisingly started to consider to request for additional C-17s even after the production line was already closed ... or now to notice the desired fighter does not fit the aircraft carrier!

Sorry mate, but your military procurement system is almost as broken as and illogical like the German one, even if I think the German one is even more ridicolous.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

You think or you just plain wish?

I think 36 for the airforce and 26 for the navy are coming , that makes a good number

I think bro and not taunting India, I'm talking sincerely, and do remember bro IN requirement is much less than IAF, 60 or so will be the possibility

 

[FuturePAF]

Go read the original post again, I'll pretend that you didn't ask. Reading is hard I get it.

533mm diameter radome, ~760 T/R GaAS element, M88 turbofan.

There aren't many countries that could build carrier jets so options ain't plenty I get it. 9.41 is fundamentally a defective product (only dozens of land test flights before the Vikramaditya deal compared to Su-27K that at least had a few thousand naval flight trials), and Super-Hornet is fundamentally an obese F-5, the structural layout of which does not cope well with increased scale and weight (bad at all air combat manoeuvres except low-speed high AoA, including but not limited to one of the worst roll rates of all fourth-gen fighters, poor energy retention in sustained turn, poor transonic and supersonic performance, etc. And it's American so there must be a billion strings attached.

Your post was unclear, hence why I asked. Unless replying respectfully is hard, you can leave it unanswered.

 

[Yasser76]

Yeah Dassault CEO told you that ?
It's 3 not 2. Insecurity is making you lose concentration.



Use your brain, that's not how corporate works. Those countries with existing order didn't order with any clause saying that Dassault has to increase the prod rate. So why would Dassault allocate all new prod line slots to the previous orders.

Thanks this post confirms you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Archie]

If contract signed in say 2026 (very possible considering how India drags these things on), first Rafale M will not hit an Indian carrier deck till around 2032 right? That is 8 years from now.

You need to figure out what IN does in the meantime.

Best bet would factor in leasing 6-8 Ms from the French Navy.

The Marine have 3 sqds of 15 aircraft each, asking for a 6 year lease on half an Sqd may be feasible. This way India gets carrier ops and work up time out the way before it's own aircraft arrive and builds up a pool of pilots and develops tactics.

Alternative to this is having two carrier with aging MIG-29s and low servicibility for 8 years. Massive waste of manpower and money

As per the terms of the deal being negotiated with France
India will receive 4 French Navy Rafale M for training purposes within 6 months of deal signing

BTW Mig29ks are not ageing
They were inducted between 2010-13

Mig29ks no longer suffer from low serviceability rates
Their were issues with spares till about 2016-17 but a lot of it has been ironed out
Commonality with Mig29s of IAF have allowed for streamlined spare supply and with HAL now making RD33MK engines under licence , both Mig29upg and Mig29k now have a 70% + availability rate

Navy intends to keep Mig29K till INS Vikramaditya remains in service
ie till 2038 at least

 

[Harbyharb]

Your post was unclear, hence why I asked. Unless replying respectfully is hard, you can leave it unanswered.

I was just trying to jest a little, didn't mean to offend, I apologize.

Use your brain, that's not how corporate works. Those countries with existing order didn't order with any clause saying that Dassault has to increase the prod rate. So why would Dassault allocate all new prod line slots to the previous orders.

Well I mean not expanding production means IN will have to be content with a waiting time of, what, at least a decade?

Not that there's any issue with that. Rafale will still make for a fine bomb truck in the mid to late 2030s...

 

[FuturePAF]

I was just trying to jest a little, didn't mean to offend, I apologize.

Well I mean not expanding production means IN will have to be content with a waiting time of, what, at least a decade?

Not that there's any issue with that. Rafale will still make for a fine bomb truck in the mid to late 2030s...

No offense taken.

On the topic, if the wingspan is at least 35 feet or 10.67 meters or even worse 10.8/10.9 meters wide, and the elevators aren’t wide enough to accommodate it, the wings will have to be modified.

Are the elevators on the newest Indian carrier also of a limited width as well, vis a vi the Rafale’s wingspan?

 

[vkdindian]

Neither the INS Vikramaditya nor the Vikrant could ever handle the Rafales under deck since they indeed do not fit not only the elevators but even worse, the structural main issue is the door/opening in the hull which is simply too small. So either thy cut the whole deck and enlarge thsi - which was never done before on any carrier - or they have to leave them on deck!

That’s a disturbing news. Hope that these aspects are clarified in due course.

I do agree though about our archaic procurement procedures.

 

[Yasser76]

As per the terms of the deal being negotiated with France
India will receive 4 French Navy Rafale M for training purposes within 6 months of deal signing

BTW Mig29ks are not ageing
They were inducted between 2010-13

Mig29ks no longer suffer from low serviceability rates
Their were issues with spares till about 2016-17 but a lot of it has been ironed out
Commonality with Mig29s of IAF have allowed for streamlined spare supply and with HAL now making RD33MK engines under licence , both Mig29upg and Mig29k now have a 70% + availability rate

Navy intends to keep Mig29K till INS Vikramaditya remains in service
ie till 2038 at least

Nope, every major user of Migs and SUs are having major difficulties due to Ukraine War, wishfuk thinking if you think India will be immune from this.

"According to reports, the Indian Navy is unsure that the MiG-29K fleet will last beyond 2030 due to airframe flaws, discrepancies, and anomalies that will make flying risky as it ages further."

Indian Navy to replace MiG-29K fleet after 2035 due to quality concerns

Although India was the fighter jet’s second launch client after the Soviet Air Force, the Indian Navy had chosen the Mig-29K due to experience with the Indian Air Force (IAF), which has been flying 60 or so Mig-29A – which were later upgraded to UPG - since the late 1980s

www.firstpost.com

https://vdo.ai/contact?utm_medium=video&utm_term=ndtv.com&utm_source=vdoai_logo


"[In] a best case scenario, a MiG-29 jet will be fully fit for operations less than 50 per cent of the time it is required to be deployed," it had said.

Navy A Step Closer To Getting Its Own Rafales, France Sends Detailed Bid

The Indian Navy is now one step closer to getting Rafale fighter jets to operate off the deck of its aircraft carriers, INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya.

www.ndtv.com

 

[DDG-80]

Nope, every major user of Migs and SUs are having major difficulties due to Ukraine War, wishfuk thinking if you think India will be immune from this.

Too much hatred and insecurity towards India seem to be clouding your judgment, which limits your thinking. Allow me to provide you with a recent update: The availability of both the IAF's MiG-29 UPG and Su-30 MKI is expected to increase because the Government of India has either signed or is on the verge of signing contracts for them. In March of this year, the GOI signed a contract worth over 5,000 crores for the procurement of 100+ RD-33 engines for the MiG-29 UPG fleet, with a major focus on indigenizing complex components. This move aims to ensure that the MiG-29 UPG always maintains a higher serviceability rate during high-intensity conflicts. Additionally, these fighters have begun receiving indigenous D29 EW suites and Astra BVRAAMs to enhance their combat performance. Regarding the Su-30 MKIs, the new government formed right after the election is expected to sign a contract for 240 new AL-31 engines, which would further increase availability. The Indian Air Force's Base Repair Depots have managed to make about 15,000 different spare parts for transport aircraft, helicopters and aero engines used by the Indian Air Force. These parts were originally made in other countries, but now they're being made in India. This happened after the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. Now, they're working on doing the same thing for some specific types of combat fighters, like the Su-30 MKIs and MiG-29 UPGs.

HAL to produce engines for Indian Air Force MiG-29s

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been contracted to deliver over 100 Klimov RD-33 engines for the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 force.

www.janes.com

 

[Archie]

Nope, every major user of Migs and SUs are having major difficulties due to Ukraine War, wishfuk thinking if you think India will be immune from this.

"According to reports, the Indian Navy is unsure that the MiG-29K fleet will last beyond 2030 due to airframe flaws, discrepancies, and anomalies that will make flying risky as it ages further."

Indian Navy to replace MiG-29K fleet after 2035 due to quality concerns

Although India was the fighter jet’s second launch client after the Soviet Air Force, the Indian Navy had chosen the Mig-29K due to experience with the Indian Air Force (IAF), which has been flying 60 or so Mig-29A – which were later upgraded to UPG - since the late 1980s

www.firstpost.com

https://vdo.ai/contact?utm_medium=video&utm_term=ndtv.com&utm_source=vdoai_logo


"[In] a best case scenario, a MiG-29 jet will be fully fit for operations less than 50 per cent of the time it is required to be deployed," it had said.

Navy A Step Closer To Getting Its Own Rafales, France Sends Detailed Bid

The Indian Navy is now one step closer to getting Rafale fighter jets to operate off the deck of its aircraft carriers, INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya.

www.ndtv.com

Unlike Pakistan

India has full TOT from Russia

We can make Mig29upg / Mig29Ks RD33Mk engines as well Su30Mki's Al31 engine completely in house

Su30mki is 78% made in India
If you continue to post 8 yr old articles ,
Then we can't say much

BTW how is spares availability of Jf17's Russian RD93 Engine
Since you have to rely on China to buy spares from Russia and supply you.

And. UKRAINE WAR has now forced Russia to buy spares from India.

 

[Deino]

Too much hatred and insecurity towards India seem to be clouding your judgment, which limits your thinking. Allow me to provide you with a recent update: The availability of both the IAF's MiG-29 UPG and Su-30 MKI is expected to increase because the Government of India has either signed or is on the verge of signing contracts for them. In March of this year, the GOI signed a contract worth over 5,000 crores for the procurement of 100+ RD-33 engines for the MiG-29 UPG fleet, with a major focus on indigenizing complex components. This move aims to ensure that the MiG-29 UPG always maintains a higher serviceability rate during high-intensity conflicts. Additionally, these fighters have begun receiving indigenous D29 EW suites and Astra BVRAAMs to enhance their combat performance. Regarding the Su-30 MKIs, the new government formed right after the election is expected to sign a contract for 240 new AL-31 engines, which would further increase availability. The Indian Air Force's Base Repair Depots have managed to make about 15,000 different spare parts for transport aircraft, helicopters and aero engines used by the Indian Air Force. These parts were originally made in other countries, but now they're being made in India. This happened after the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. Now, they're working on doing the same thing for some specific types of combat fighters, like the Su-30 MKIs and MiG-29 UPGs.

HAL to produce engines for Indian Air Force MiG-29s

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been contracted to deliver over 100 Klimov RD-33 engines for the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29 force.

www.janes.com

Sorry my over-enthusiastic friend, but the key-word is this part!

"is expected to increase because" ... and then followed by long plans, huge aims and ambitious ideas but it still is a plan and not a fact!

So the question was NOT if there are ideas to rectify it, but plain and simple a description of the current situation.

Everything else is useless blahblahblah. In fact NOTHING HAS BEEN done yet to immediately improve the serviceability.

 

[nahtanbob]

Well, that explains PAF getting the J-31, and not waiting for KAAN.

While the J10C would be able to match the Rafales, only a 5th gen would be able to guarantee victory over a European fighter.

The J-31 has not been inducted by anyone

 

[nahtanbob]

You say that, but these purchases are just as much political as they are military.

Before the Rafale, France had a relatively neutral attitude between India and Pakistan. After the Rafale, France took a very hostile attitude towards Pakistan.

What you say is true. The Indian Navy had the choice of Super Hornets

 

[harpy1]

Are they making a dedicated folding-wing variant of the Rafale-M for India? Or are they planning to just, well, wing it and service it exclusively above deck?

Last I checked it doesn’t fit on the elevator of either Vikrant or Vikramaditya

The cost of buying 26 Rafale for Navy is 6 billion dollars
I think the Navy and ministry of defense will have checked and established that these hyper expensive jets can operate off Vikrant carrier
Ps they are being brought for Vikrant Indian Built carrier..

Vikramdiyta will continue with migs
But will be phased out by 2035 when India inducts vishal ie ten years time

I find it hilarious that pdf posters think that India would spend six billion with out having a plan and test that rafale was best options
Remember super hornets were the other options
I don't think India is naive enough to blow waste money like you Suggest

As for your j31 induction let's see what happens Chinese generosity will go only so far you need a serious financial improvement to buy and operate fifth generation fighter..

Will see how much china gives you and what you have to do for this favour ie lease territory access to strategic areas later to be called Chinese land ..
Nothing is free