The J-20 Challenge: Can India Bridge the Fighter Jet Gap With China?

[SolarWarden]

Neither F-35A or F-35C can supercruise as well.

They are better than F-35B but nowhere near true 5th generation fighters like F-22 and J-20(with WS-15) in kinematic performance. This is what happens when you design an "all in one" fighter and not one purey designed for air supremacy.

Notice the Mach 1.6 top speed and 7.5G maximum g load.

https://www.f35.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/f35/documents/fg15-1280_003_f-35c_pc.pdf

Foolish talk from a person who doesn't know what he's talking about.

US coined the term 5th gen and USAF pilots tell you what makes a 5th gen fighter, yet you choose to bury your head/stick your fingers in your ears and go 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR THEM' to live in your own reality. And the F-35 was made to dominate the air to air realm and dominate air to ground, antiship, ISR and EW. You're just being thick headed because the J-20 is a one trick pony.

J-20's top speed test was done without any load inside its bays or PLA would be boasting it did with 6 mock missiles. All fighters top speed is done clean configuration and at high altitude. F-35 top speed is purposely limited to mach 1.6 on all variants and is able to go mach 1.6 on a full internal combat load of two 2000lbs bombs and two aim-120s. F-35 production model actually reached mach 1.9. No fighter EVER goes its top speed in combat the mighty F-15 with its top speed of mach 2.5 and 104 kills to 0 losses has only reached supersonic a handful of times in combat and never gone pass mach 1.8 in Desert Storm when it dropped its tanks to intercept Iraqi Mig-25's.


F-35A is rated for 9gs the C/B variant rated for 7.5gs just like the F-14 and F-18 which has no problem dogfighting flankers.

fight starts @8:30

And why bring up F-35B/C 7.5g rated when J-20 is flying brick?

 

[Deino]

…

And why bring up F-35B/C 7.5g rated when J-20 is flying brick?

Since when is the J-20 a flying brick?

 

[SolarWarden]

Since when is the J-20 a flying brick?

Lol. Little harsh on my part but the J-20 is not this dogfighter that Chinese fans seem to deem important. J-20 doesn't come with a gun yet forums where F-35 is the topic they always bring up how F-35 can't turn and other cliches that have been debunked long ago.

 

[UKBengali]

Foolish talk from a person who doesn't know what he's talking about.

US coined the term 5th gen and USAF pilots tell you what makes a 5th gen fighter, yet you choose to bury your head/stick your fingers in your ears and go 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR THEM' to live in your own reality. And the F-35 was made to dominate the air to air realm and dominate air to ground, antiship, ISR and EW. You're just being thick headed because the J-20 is a one trick pony.

J-20's top speed test was done without any load inside its bays or PLA would be boasting it did with 6 mock missiles. All fighters top speed is done clean configuration and at high altitude. F-35 top speed is purposely limited to mach 1.6 on all variants and is able to go mach 1.6 on a full internal combat load of two 2000lbs bombs and two aim-120s. F-35 production model actually reached mach 1.9. No fighter EVER goes its top speed in combat the mighty F-15 with its top speed of mach 2.5 and 104 kills to 0 losses has only reached supersonic a handful of times in combat and never gone pass mach 1.8 in Desert Storm when it dropped its tanks to intercept Iraqi Mig-25's.


F-35A is rated for 9gs the C/B variant rated for 7.5gs just like the F-14 and F-18 which has no problem dogfighting flankers.

fight starts @8:30

And why bring up F-35B/C 7.5g rated when J-20 is flying brick?

US does not have a patent on what 5th generation is. lol.

Lots of military experts say supercruise as a defining characteristic of a 5th generation airplane.

Before calling others clueless maybe you should look at what you know or more precisely don't know.

Keep at it with the 'cope" over that F-35 can somehow go into long range BVR duels with 5th generation fighters that have immense kinematic advantage over it.

 

[liuzhengdong]

And J-20 can't see F-35 at all. Only time J-20 pilot knows F-35 is there is when it gets hit by missile.

China's anti-stealth radar first discovered the F35 and guided the J-20 to intercept it. The United States lacked anti-stealth radar, and the F35 was shot down by the before it even discovered the J20,

 

[liuzhengdong]

Lol. Little harsh on my part but the J-20 is not this dogfighter that Chinese fans seem to deem important. J-20 doesn't come with a gun yet forums where F-35 is the topic they always bring up how F-35 can't turn and other cliches that have been debunked long ago.

The use of machine guns by stealth fighters proves that their stealth has failed and they have been shot down.

 

[liuzhengdong]

Foolish talk from a person who doesn't know what he's talking about.

US coined the term 5th gen and USAF pilots tell you what makes a 5th gen fighter, yet you choose to bury your head/stick your fingers in your ears and go 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR THEM' to live in your own reality. And the F-35 was made to dominate the air to air realm and dominate air to ground, antiship, ISR and EW. You're just being thick headed because the J-20 is a one trick pony.

J-20's top speed test was done without any load inside its bays or PLA would be boasting it did with 6 mock missiles. All fighters top speed is done clean configuration and at high altitude. F-35 top speed is purposely limited to mach 1.6 on all variants and is able to go mach 1.6 on a full internal combat load of two 2000lbs bombs and two aim-120s. F-35 production model actually reached mach 1.9. No fighter EVER goes its top speed in combat the mighty F-15 with its top speed of mach 2.5 and 104 kills to 0 losses has only reached supersonic a handful of times in combat and never gone pass mach 1.8 in Desert Storm when it dropped its tanks to intercept Iraqi Mig-25's.


F-35A is rated for 9gs the C/B variant rated for 7.5gs just like the F-14 and F-18 which has no problem dogfighting flankers.

fight starts @8:30

And why bring up F-35B/C 7.5g rated when J-20 is flying brick?

Future air combat will be system combat. Stealth fighters will be in the radar-off state during combat. Stealth fighters rely on early warning aircraft and ground radars for early detection of wars, so they will be at an advantage if they have anti-stealth radars.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Since when is the J-20 a flying brick?

"I don’t think that it’s a dominating aircraft at this point, compared to what we have [in terms of stealthy F-22 Raptors and F-35 Lightnings]," Wilsbach highlighted. "They’ve done some good copying… pretty much most of the technology from that airplane [the J-20] was stolen from the U.S."

As Wilsbach himself indicated, his most recent assessment of the J-20 is broadly in line with the comments he made at the 2022 iteration of the Air & Space Forces Association's annual symposium. At that event, the general noted how J-20s "weren’t anything to lose a lot of sleep over," but that, "Certainly, we're watching them [China] closely and seeing how they… operate them."

This viewpoint was supported by Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Q. Brown, who was also speaking at the 2022 symposium: "Well, I'm like General Wilsbach… [The J-20 is] not something to lose a lot of sleep over, but I'm gonna pay attention to it."

China's J-20 Isn't A "Dominating Aircraft," USAF General Says

The Pacific Air Forces chief isn't too concerned about China's J-20 stealth fighter that he says is based on "stolen" U.S. technology.

www.twz.com

Some comments from USAF leadership and now the current top General of the Joint Chiefs Gen Brown.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Lol. Little harsh on my part but the J-20 is not this dogfighter that Chinese fans seem to deem important. J-20 doesn't come with a gun yet forums where F-35 is the topic they always bring up how F-35 can't turn and other cliches that have been debunked long ago.

China's new H-20 stealth bomber 'not really' a concern for Pentagon, says intel official - Breaking Defense

“The thing with the H-20 is when you actually look at the system design, it's probably nowhere near as good as US LO [low observable] platforms, particularly more advanced ones that we have coming down,” said a DoD intelligence official.

breakingdefense.com

The US doesn’t seem all that concerned about Chinas Air Force in general. Just from comments from all USAF leadership, the consensus is the US is well ahead of China in aircraft technology and design.

 

[Deino]

"I don’t think that it’s a dominating aircraft at this point, compared to what we have [in terms of stealthy F-22 Raptors and F-35 Lightnings]," Wilsbach highlighted. "They’ve done some good copying… pretty much most of the technology from that airplane [the J-20] was stolen from the U.S."

As Wilsbach himself indicated, his most recent assessment of the J-20 is broadly in line with the comments he made at the 2022 iteration of the Air & Space Forces Association's annual symposium. At that event, the general noted how J-20s "weren’t anything to lose a lot of sleep over," but that, "Certainly, we're watching them [China] closely and seeing how they… operate them."

This viewpoint was supported by Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Q. Brown, who was also speaking at the 2022 symposium: "Well, I'm like General Wilsbach… [The J-20 is] not something to lose a lot of sleep over, but I'm gonna pay attention to it."

China's J-20 Isn't A "Dominating Aircraft," USAF General Says

The Pacific Air Forces chief isn't too concerned about China's J-20 stealth fighter that he says is based on "stolen" U.S. technology.

www.twz.com

Some comments from USAF leadership and now the current top General of the Joint Chiefs Gen Brown.

And that's exactly the arrogance I mentioned so often! No-one denies the US' superiority, but such statements like "pretty much most of the technology from that airplane [the J-20] was stolen from the U.S." is simply stupid and wrong even more so when on the one side you downrate everything as crap, stolen or copied and at the same time portray it as the most future opponent and several simulations - including US' ones - say any future conflict with China won't be easy, the losses will be terrifying and an easy victory is impossible.

But hey, as long the US have the habit to downplay anything from China while Indians overhype the own capabilities, then all is fine.

 

[SolarWarden]

US does not have a patent on what 5th generation is. lol.

US coined the term 5th gen they are telling you F-35 is actually more than just a fifth gen fighter but you purposely ignore that fact to suit your delusion.

Lots of military experts say supercruise as a defining characteristic of a 5th generation airplane.

Who are these military experts? Is it LM, USAF, DOD the folks who built the F-35 and fly it? Post names who are these experts that you seem to listen to.

Before calling others clueless maybe you should look at what you know or more precisely don't know.

Which is why I called you clueless. You really don't know much on this topic.

Keep at it with the 'cope" over that F-35 can somehow go into long range BVR duels with 5th generation fighters that have immense kinematic advantage over it.

This is what I mean by thick headed. You purposely don't wanna know so that your argument stays relevant, but it's only relevant in your mind.

F-22's are kings of kinematics yet F-35's are shooting them down at BVR at RedFlag. F-35's are getting first look which equals first shoot. J-20 is not "stealth" but a Low Observable fighter.

Chinese copy/reverse engineer just about everything high-tech just about everything high-tech in chinese military is a copy, it is your way.

F-22/F-35 pilots have already said speed/kinematics is the least important the most important is SA. J-20 can fly faster and higher but it's not going to do it any good if it doesn't know where the F-35 is. Good luck finding F-35 as it EW attacks J-20 radar blinding it from BVR ranges.

Can China produce a stealth fighter jet comparable to the F-35?​

At this point one may ask if China has the capabilities to produce a stealth fighter jet comparable to the F-35.

‘Eventually? Yes.

‘Now? No, they cannot,’ Eric Wicklund, former US Navy Operations Specialist, explains.

‘Just producing a stealthy-looking shape is only one part of many different aspects of stealth. Even internal structures, and how they’re configured, matter. Notice how this radar is tilted up. Radar waves hitting it are scattered upwards.

‘I’m not giving anything up by mentioning this. Reports about this are all over the internet. I’ve seen it many times before, and just now found it again with a simple google search.

‘Another major part of Stealth is the RAM (Radar Absorbent Material). Up to 80% of the radar waves that are absorbed/scattered happen because of the RAM. Understanding this requires cutting edge knowledge of materials science. This has been a weak point for China.

Reverse engineering the process to produce RAM​

‘But how good this RAM is, is up to speculation. Stealing Stealth “shaping” secrets off a computer is great fodder for internet memes, but learning how to manufacture RAM is far easier said than done. I could hand the Chinese a chunk of RAM, they could analyze it, and realize it is genuine, but the problem is in reverse engineering it. They know what it is, but wouldn’t know how to make it.

‘I could hand a Damascus Steel blade to an Egyptian sword-maker. He’d realize immediately that the material was far superior to anything he’d ever seen before. Problem is, he wouldn’t be able to reverse-engineer the process that produced it. This is the problem Chinese engineers are facing.

‘China struggles for many years to learn how to make fan blades for their WS-15 engine, capable of withstanding the intense heat within a jet engine. It’s tricky stuff, but China has finally got the WS-15 into production.’

Wicklund concludes;

‘RAM is going to be another difficult stepping stone, and until they master it, China’s stealth fighters will be outmatched by the F-35.’

US Navy Operations Specialist explains why China is not yet able to build a stealth fighter jet comparable to the F-35

US Navy Operations Specialist explains why China is not yet able to build a stealth fighter jet comparable to the F-35

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[SolarWarden]

And that's exactly the arrogance I mentioned so often! No-one denies the US' superiority, but such statements like "pretty much most of the technology from that airplane [the J-20] was stolen from the U.S." is simply stupid and wrong even more so when on the one side you downrate everything as crap, stolen or copied and at the same time portray it as the most future opponent and several simulations - including US' ones - say any future conflict with China won't be easy, the losses will be terrifying and an easy victory is impossible.

But hey, as long the US have the habit to downplay anything from China while Indians overhype the own capabilities, then all is fine.

You have got to be kidding, right? Are you purposely not paying attention to J-20 fanboys or chinese military fanboys in here? They are the epitome of arrogance I am just reacting to their ridiculous claims of the F-35.

 

[SolarWarden]

China's new H-20 stealth bomber 'not really' a concern for Pentagon, says intel official - Breaking Defense

“The thing with the H-20 is when you actually look at the system design, it's probably nowhere near as good as US LO [low observable] platforms, particularly more advanced ones that we have coming down,” said a DoD intelligence official.

breakingdefense.com

The US doesn’t seem all that concerned about Chinas Air Force in general. Just from comments from all USAF leadership, the consensus is the US is well ahead of China in aircraft technology and design.

I know that and you know that but chinese military fanboys in here don't know that. They go off with some of the most ridiculous claims about US weapon systems that have been debunked and when you show them they completely ignore it and when you fire back why their tech is far behind the US then it becomes us who are being a bit arrogant.

 

[SolarWarden]

China's anti-stealth radar first discovered the F35 and guided the J-20 to intercept it. The United States lacked anti-stealth radar, and the F35 was shot down by the before it even discovered the J20,

View attachment 48738

Because it says it is anti stealth then it must be so, eh? Type055 has the most powerful chinese made aesa (so they say) antenna and it was jammed when it tried to track and jam Pelosi's plane flying to Taiwan... that was a small taste what the US can do to "high-tech" PLA equipment.

 

[liuzhengdong]

Because it says it is anti stealth then it must be so, eh? Type055 has the most powerful chinese made aesa (so they say) antenna and it was jammed when it tried to track and jam Pelosi's plane flying to Taiwan... that was a small taste what the US can do to "high-tech" PLA equipment.

It was fake news that the PLA tracked and interfered with Pelosi's plane flying to Taiwan. Pelosi's plane positioning system was working all the time and broadcast her flight route live to the world. The PLA only needed to watch the live news to know where Pelosi was. In order to avoid the PLA Navy, Pelosi deliberately detoured to Taiwan via the Philippines.