Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[MirageBlue]

I was confused with a 3 carrier navy for indian plus having Mig29+Rafale-M there is not much roam left for TEDBF as the number would be so small for developing a new fighter. But as you mentioned 6 carriers, yes things are clear now.

The MiG-29Ks will just about manage to last till 2035. That too with an airframe structural upgrade that will be needed within this decade. The extreme rigours of carrier landings are not easy to handle. The MiG-29K, while it's safety record has been very good, needs upgrades.

 

[Justin TruDont]

Let us do some maths.

85% availability. Only 22 are carrier capable.

So you will have around 20 available planes.

You will need 2 spares to cover any frontline planes that go unservicable. Even though you have four 2 seaters, some single seaters will be required for training. Call it 4 planes

That leaves you around 12 max

Will the same maths apply to PAF J10CE

you guys bought only 25 of them

Given the lower availability rates of Chinese Jets compared to western aircrafts , I assume something like 8-10 would be available for operations at any point of time

 

[Yasser76]

Will the same maths apply to PAF J10CE

you guys bought only 25 of them

Given the lower availability rates of Chinese Jets compared to western aircrafts , I assume something like 8-10 would be available for operations at any point of time

I am unsure, but I thought this is a thread on IN Rafales

 

[Justin TruDont]

I am unsure, but I thought this is a thread on IN Rafales

You just said that 22 Rafale M despite having 85% availability rate will only have 12 aircrafts available for carrier operations.

I just asked the same question with respect to J10CE which has a 60% availability rate in PLAAF
By your matrix , only 8 out of 25 should be available for combat missions

 

[Deino]

…
I just asked the same question with respect to J10CE which has a 60% availability rate in PLAAF
By your matrix , only 8 out of 25 should be available for combat missions

From where did you get this 60% rate in PLAAF service?

 

[Yasser76]

You just said that 22 Rafale M despite having 85% availability rate will only have 12 aircrafts available for carrier operations.

I just asked the same question with respect to J10CE which has a 60% availability rate in PLAAF
By your matrix , only 8 out of 25 should be available for combat missions

OK, why not just ask that in the J-10 thread?

back to the main point, 12 fighters on a carrier seems woefully little.

 

[Yasser76]

From where did you get this 60% rate in PLAAF service?

They make up their own facts to suite them, you have not realised this by now?

 

[DevendraRajput]

India only chose Rafale over Eurofighter due to the fact that Rafale is carrier capable.

Eurofighter is a better air to air fighter.

Eurofighter has a bigger problem. It is "Euro". Meaning every stupid tree-hugger and peace-lover in Europe has a lot of say in its sales and maintenance. Europe as a whole is much more unreliable than a single country.

 

[Justin TruDont]

They make up their own facts to suite them, you have not realised this by now?

You just made up your own facts about 10 Rafales not available for deployment

France claims 90% availability rate for combat for Rafale Ms
I just went by 85% which is what IAF is getting on a regular basis

You said 4 single seat aircrafts are required for training,
2 are off for heavy maintenance
Another 2 could be not available for any reason.

I just said that same maths should apply to J10CE which has lower availability rates as compared to Western aircrafts thanks to reliability issues of its engine.

You can't digest that by your logic PAF will struggle to field 10 J10CE in combat

Becoz the maths you keep on applying to India will also Apply to Pakistan

You can Google Jf17 availability rates to get an idea of what maintenance requirements you will face with J10CE

 

[Yasser76]

You just made up your own facts about 10 Rafales not available for deployment

France claims 90% availability rate for combat for Rafale Ms
I just went by 85% which is what IAF is getting on a regular basis

You said 4 single seat aircrafts are required for training,
2 are off for heavy maintenance
Another 2 could be not available for any reason.

I just said that same maths should apply to J10CE which has lower availability rates as compared to Western aircrafts thanks to reliability issues of its engine.

You can't digest that by your logic PAF will struggle to field 10 J10CE in combat

Becoz the maths you keep on applying to India will also Apply to Pakistan

You can Google Jf17 availability rates to get an idea of what maintenance requirements you will face with J10CE

The same maths may well apply to the J-10. I am struggling to see why you feel the need to drag Pakistan Air force into a debate on the IN Rafale. Do we really live rent free in the head of many Indians all the time?

 

[onlinpunit]

The same maths may well apply to the J-10. I am struggling to see why you feel the need to drag Pakistan Air force into a debate on the IN Rafale. Do we really live rent free in the head of many Indians all the time?

U are the one laying and hatching your own facts !!

 

[Yasser76]

U are the one laying and hatching your own facts !!

Explain how i am doing this please?

 

[harpy1]

The rafale M will equip the Vikrant carrier only ...
India will receive 26 rafales of which 22 are combat ready single seater
And 4 are combat ready trainers twin seater
That means 26 Rafales for medium sized carrier similar to the complement on the french carrier which is similar size to Vikrant

As for availability

Peace time 16/18 at all times with varying availability between 80/90%

During war time high tension

Every single of the 26 Rafales will be armed and ready to fight
... Availability is peace time

War time it's all hands to the pump
Even emergency purchases of Spares weapons and even planes

 

[harpy1]

For the record a 18/20 of these beasts would wreck havoc on any adversary
They are formidable threat

 

[Yasser76]

The rafale M will equip the Vikrant carrier only ...
India will receive 26 rafales of which 22 are combat ready single seater
And 4 are combat ready trainers twin seater
That means 26 Rafales for medium sized carrier similar to the complement on the french carrier which is similar size to Vikrant

As for availability

Peace time 16/18 at all times with varying availability between 80/90%

During war time high tension

Every single of the 26 Rafales will be armed and ready to fight
... Availability is peace time

War time it's all hands to the pump
Even emergency purchases of Spares weapons and even planes

No, that is literally not how it works. Also take into account attrition, even a surge in wartime will never mean you will have all 26 ready (4 cannot even fly off the carrier!!!!).

Even 16 (at a push!) means you will still need to commit at least 6-8 to maintain a continous 24/7 CAP of two planes over the carrier during war. That will give you around 10 left, assuming some of these will need repairs on the carrier, at a push you will have 8 fighters available for offensive ops.